LABSAFETY-L Archive 9811 November 1998

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==============================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:44:19 +1300
From: Peter Robinson <peter@HILL-LABS.CO.NZ>
Subject: Re: eye wash stations/safety showers
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Further to this. What is the alternative? Neutralise the acid? The =
heat of neutralisation would be even greater I guess.

Lots, and lots, and lots, of water is the first response as already =
mentioned by others.

As a sideline to this. We had a dispenser with 0.5% sodium carbonate =
solution. Not considered hazardous. BUT someone got a splash in their =
eye (around the edge of their glasses). Much pain, etc, and the high pH =
solution is even worse than acid for the eye. Much flushing with water. =
The tech was taken to an A&E clinic for checking. Thankfully no =
on-going problem, and this incident has sharpened up all our staff's =
awareness of the potential hazards in the lab.

Peter Robinson PhD FNZIC
Environmental Division Manager
Hill Laboratories, Private Bag 3205, Hamilton, NEW ZEALAND
Phone: +64 7 858 2000 Fax: +64 7 858 2001
Email: peter@hill-labs.co.nz

----------
From: Harry Elston
Sent: Saturday, 31 October 1998 3:28 am
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: eye wash stations/safety showers

At 09:00 AM 10/30/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Greetings Tom,
>Don't forget that sulfuric acid and cold water is an exothermic
>reaction, heat of dilution. It's enough to make the water boil. I've
>seen this myself.
>
>> the cold water, and cause additional eye
>> damage from the hot water itself as well as exagerate eye damage by
>creating an exothermic reaction, such as the mixing of H2SO4 with
>water in the eye.

I don't want to dwell on this point, but I think it should be mentioned.
Regardless of the contaminant on the skin or the eye, Lots-o-Water is =
THE
immedate first aid treatment of choice at the lab. I think that any
secondary damage to the tissue caused by the exothermic reaction of an =
acid
or base will be insignificant compared to leaving the contaminant on the
tissue itself while we waste time wondering what is the treatment of
choice. A few drops of concentrated sulfuric acid just won't react
significantly with a gallon of water. Don't let a little knowledge of
"chemistry" interfere with "physiology" by overanalyzing this situation.

Secondary treatment given by EMS or other health care professionals can =
be
more specific to the contaminant.

Eileen Segal in the last issue of Chemical Health and Safety did a
wonderful job discussing first aid for HF dermal/ocular exposure. =
Though
the recommended treatment for HF is only 5 minutes of flushing while EMS =
is
on it's way, the important point for this discussion, I believe, is that
flushing is still the recommended immediate action.

Harry Elston

Harry J. Elston, Ph.D., NRCC-CHO
Chemical Hygiene Officer
Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety
Opinions are mine, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah

"God made all those stars out of nothin'. He just
'pfffft' and there they were."
-Larry the Cucumber, Veggie Tales

==============================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:49:26 -0500
From: Don Abramowitz <dabramo1@SWARTHMORE.EDU>
Subject: Re: eye wash stations/safety showers
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Still more on the eyewash/shower question:

Regarding drench hoses, there are models that have valves that lock open
when activated. One we like has two bubbler-type nozzles at about eye
width, and it makes a fine eyewash as well as body drenching hose
(Speakman(r) twin spray).

Unfortunately, I believeit does not meet ANSI standards as an eyewash
because one must hold the handpiece while irrigating the eyes, so it is not
a hands-free operation (I suppose it could be hands-free if the mounting
bracket or counter-top hole is located just right). We have elected to
install them in some older labs
anyway, because they can be mounted near a sink through a hole in the
counter (the hose stores below the counter, like a spray hose on a kitchen
sink), and take up very little room where space is a problem. Also, the
labs are rarely occupied by only one person, so my hope is that hands-free
operation won't be a major issue.

In my hazardous waste site clean-up days, we used a portable bottle kit
that used sterilized, sealed bottles of saline that came in a snazzy,
portable plastic case of 6 bottles (Eyesaline(r)). My recollection is the
vendor claimed 15
minutes irrigation time could be achieved with the full set of bottles, and
it seemed like a reasonable thing to have on sites without water. Not ANSI
approved (certainly not hands free, and interruptions occur with bottle
changes), but perhaps an option for maintenance people or others working
remotely. If the expiration dates on the bottles are respected, and the
seals are not broken until needed, I think they would likely provide a
safe, though imperfect, source of irrigation.

I'd be curious to hear thoughts on the drenchhose/eyewash device especially.

Thanks,
Don

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don Abramowitz, CIH
Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer

Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081

Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:46:20 EST
From: Gilbert Smith <NRCC6@AOL.COM>
Subject: CHO CERTIFICATION EXAM
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The NRCC CHO certification exam is scheduled for Friday afternoon (3 hours),
Jan 8, 1999 at the NEW SAFETY'99 program in Hartford, CT. There is a separate
application process for the exam. It takes approximately 4 weeks to process
an exam application. Applications to sit for the CHO certification exam may
be requested from: NRCC6@aol.com. Information may be viewed at:
http://members.aol.com/nrcc6.nrcc.htm

Gilbert Smith
NRCC
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:19:02 EST
From: Brian Wazlaw <BriWazlaw@AOL.COM>
Subject: Lab Safety Sabbatical
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I am planning to apply for a sabbatical for the coming school year (99-00).
My sabbatical plan will focus on developing a lab safety plan and a CHP. The
lab safety plan and CHP will apply to grades 6 - 12 which consists of 2
schools, 2900 students, and 23 science teachers.
Where do I begin? Do I take various OSHA courses? What college
courses/workshops are available? What information and institutions should I
contact? I am aware of the CHO Safety Workshop Jan. 6 - 8 in Hartford Conn.
How should I structure my one year sabbatical leave? Any ideas? I am open to
all suggestions.
Forgot to mention, I teach 9th grade science and chemistry at Exeter High
School.

Thanks,
Brian Wazlaw
Exeter High School
Exeter, NH 03833 603 436-2833
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:54:14 -0500
From: Mary Ann Solstad <msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET>
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Sabbatical
In-Reply-To: <84c9b03b.363e6816@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:19 PM 11/2/98 EST, you wrote:
> I am planning to apply for a sabbatical for the coming school year (99-00).
>My sabbatical plan will focus on developing a lab safety plan and a CHP.
The
>lab safety plan and CHP will apply to grades 6 - 12 which consists of 2
>schools, 2900 students, and 23 science teachers.
> Where do I begin? Do I take various OSHA courses? What college
>courses/workshops are available? What information and institutions should I
>contact? I am aware of the CHO Safety Workshop Jan. 6 - 8 in Hartford Conn.
> How should I structure my one year sabbatical leave? Any ideas? I am open to
>all suggestions.
> Forgot to mention, I teach 9th grade science and chemistry at
Exeter High
>School.
>
>Thanks,
> Brian Wazlaw
> Exeter High School
> Exeter, NH 03833 603 436-2833

I can only offer little odds and ends of advice. Yes, take the CHO
workshop. Get into one of Jim Kaufman's Lab Safety Workshops. Neither one
of these is a road map for your task, more like roadside attractions.
Just out, ACS books has a "Guide for CHOs, written by 3 colleagues of mine,
Some 6 to 10 years ago Lewis publishers had a useful volume by Jay Young.
It could very well be out of print--good ones always are.
I think it's important for your teachers to "own" the CHP. They will be
judged by how they follow the written plan--tell them that and they will
want to have input. Start by asking them to do a job hazard analysis for
their room, or different activities they do.
Learn the basic principles of toxicology, to inform yourself and then your
staff. If you don't do this, then all the MSDSs and some general
references will scare you without informing you too much. For one thing,
those references are directed towards larger, (industrial) volumes than you
should have in you classrooms. When you are trying to sort all that out,
break your chemicals down into general types: hydrocarbons, alcohols,
acids (strong and weaker), bases, heavy metals, etc. Within each class the
properties are affected by molecular weight. If you don't know organic
chem, get someone who does to help you.

Get hold of some back issues of Chemical HEalth & Safety, especially the
earlier ones when the Lab Standard was still sort of new.

Good luck. I'm sure others on the list will have better road maps.

Mary Ann
Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety
SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude
16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness
781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application
Authority
DivCHAS Chair, ACS
msolstad@mediaone.net
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:41:50 -0500
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Sabbatical
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Howdy Brian.

Having the desire to make this a priority and focus for a year will carry =
you a long way toward the goal. I have been involved with safety since I =
became pregnant while employed as an analytical chemist eight years ago =
now. Nothing like a very personal reason to get you involved in something =
new. At the time the lab standard was just being implemented in industry =
and no one new where it was going.

I would say that attending the safety conference at Trinity College will =
be a great first step. You will have the opportunity to meet and chat =
with those who are doing what you are doing as well as those who have made =
some strives at accomplishing what you are attempting. The key is to get =
your hands on some reference materials and an outline of sorts. The first =
real step will be the hazard analysis. I agree that you will be most =
successful if you can get the teachers you work with to take on this task. =
You can make it easier by providing them with a form and some support =
info to help them make their determinations.

I would say that you would be better prepared to start this initial phase =
once you have attended the Winter Safety conf. I have just recently =
worked with faculty here in the med school to put together a CHP for the =
Gross Anatomy Lab. I found a great deal of support and gained lots of =
needed info by having a couple of very focused meetings with the group in =
question. Holding fruitful meetings is an art form in and of itself. One =
key, keep the group small and focused on a specific point. Never meet for =
more than 45 minutes. =20

Given our close proximity, geographically speaking, and our common ground =
in education, please feel free to contact me as you get going and I would =
be happy to help you out where I can.

*****************
Janeen Lapierre, CHO
College of Osteopathic Medicine
University of New England
11 Hills Beach Road
Biddeford, ME 04005

E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446
Opinions are mine and not those of UNE.=20

>>> Brian Wazlaw <BriWazlaw@AOL.COM> - 11/2/98 9:19 PM >>>
I am planning to apply for a sabbatical for the coming school year =
(99-00).
My sabbatical plan will focus on developing a lab safety plan and a CHP. =
The
lab safety plan and CHP will apply to grades 6 - 12 which consists of 2
schools, 2900 students, and 23 science teachers.
Where do I begin? Do I take various OSHA courses? What college
courses/workshops are available? What information and institutions should =
I
contact? I am aware of the CHO Safety Workshop Jan. 6 - 8 in Hartford =
Conn.
How should I structure my one year sabbatical leave? Any ideas? I am open =
to
all suggestions.
Forgot to mention, I teach 9th grade science and chemistry at =
Exeter High
School.

Thanks,
Brian Wazlaw
Exeter High School
Exeter, NH 03833 603 436-2833
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:16:44 -0400
From: Don Abramowitz <dabramo1@SWARTHMORE.EDU>
Subject: Fire Question
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This question is a short walk from laboratory safety (to the campus cafe,
actually), but I would appreciate any insights on the following:

We had a small fire* recently in our cafe that started in a plastic trash
can (probably no lid) used to collect used clean-up rags for laundering.
The smoke detectors and sprinkler tripped around 6:00 AM, about 7 hours
after the building was closed up for the night. Investigators speculate
that a rag may have been used to wipe down the hot grill, then unknowingly
placed in
the can smoldering. My question concerns the actual cause of ignition.

The grill is frequently cleaned while hot using a good squirt
of cooking oil, which ends up on the rag when it makes its way to the can.
The oil in this instance is a blend of "vegetable" oil, soybean oil, and
"olive pomace" oil. The rags also contain some sooty cooking grease and
oil residues that had been well heated in the course of cooking. Other
cleaning rags in the can contain residues of glass cleaner, all purpose
cleaner, and a
degreaser containing some monoethanolamine.

My question is: Does anyone know of any cooking oils capable of
reacting/polymerizing
with air to generate heat, the way linseed oil does, so as to be able to
set rags on fire by "spontaneous combustion"?
I believe boiled linseed oil is more likely than raw linseed oil to
self-ignite, and I'm wondering if the cooked oils might behave similarly.

As to the theory that a rag was heated on the grill to the point of
smoldering, then carried a good distance (down a flight of stairs) to the
storage can by hand, I'm
thinking that hand would notice something was amiss. Also, with the oil on
the rag, I imagine it would be likely to burn with a flame rather than
smolder for many hours if it was so heated. I don't expect that the
cleaning products would react with anything in the can, as they are fairly
diluted in water in use, but I'm open to ideas.

In any case, we will be switching to a self-closing metal can for
collecting our wash rags.

I would appreciate any information, opinions, or from-the-hip theories on
possible fire causes in this situation.

Thanks,
Don

*The fire stayed small thanks to a sprinkler head directly over the can. A
textbook argument for sprinklering every campus building!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don Abramowitz, CIH
Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer

Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081

Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:13:22 EST
From: "Gilbert E. Smith" <GSmith3792@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: CHO CERTIFICATION EXAM
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Corrected web address:
http://members.aol.com/nrcc6/nrcc.htm

Sorry for error.

Gilbert Smith
NRCC
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:25:11 -0500
From: "David (Fuzz) Harrison" <fdh@ARETHA.JAX.ORG>
Subject: Re: CHO CERTIFICATION EXAM
In-Reply-To: <562e6f42.363e1a1c@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dear Gilbert:
The site you posted causes a default error in my email and netscape when I
try to access it from email, and when I go straight from netscape I get
"The requested URL was not found on this server." Perhaps it's a problem
with my computer/software, but can you verify the address for me? Thanks.

At 03:46 PM 11/2/98 EST, you wrote:
>The NRCC CHO certification exam is scheduled for Friday afternoon (3 hours),
>Jan 8, 1999 at the NEW SAFETY'99 program in Hartford, CT. There is a
separate
>application process for the exam. It takes approximately 4 weeks to process
>an exam application. Applications to sit for the CHO certification exam may
>be requested from: NRCC6@aol.com. Information may be viewed at:
>http://members.aol.com/nrcc6.nrcc.htm
>
>Gilbert Smith
>NRCC
>
Fuzz Harrison, Industrial Hygienist
The Jackson Laboratory, 600 Main Street, Bar Harbor ME 04609-1500
(http://www.jax.org/)
207.288.6473 voice, 207.288.6147 fax, fdh@.jax.org email
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:48:27 -0500
From: Dave Gelpke <dgelpke@CANBERRA.COM>
Subject: Tech Session - Open to all
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OSHA's New Respiratory Protection Standard 1910.134
Presented by CT Valley Chapter, American Society of Safety Engineers

November 18, 1998 7:30 A.M. - 12:00 P.M. Hawthorne Inn, Berlin Turnpike,
Berlin, CT
Agenda
7:30 A.M. Registration and continental breakfast 8 :00 A.M.
Seminar 10:15 A.M. Break
10:30 A.M. Seminar 11:45 A.M. Interactive Discussion 12:00
P.M. End

Topics

--0__=H5oxFYftldPk6ItuQ7tVEk7Xcby8v3X1b5qz1829fwvEUwMJ6sRpO97k
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=B7Compliance Dates =B7Annual Fit Testing =B7Voluntary Dus=
t Masks
=B7NIOSH/ANSI Standards =B7New Definitions
=B7Fire Brigade's new rule "Two in Two Out" =B7Written Program

Speaker
Martin J. Lewis, CIH, CSP - Certified Industrial Hygienist and Certi=
fied
Safety Professional in comprehensive practice. Marty has over 18 year=
s of
experience in respiratory protection program administration inclu=
ding
performing exposure assessments, selection of respirators and empl=
oyee
training.

About the Seminar
OSHA recently issued the first major change to their respiratory protec=
tion
standard in 18 years. The seminar is designed to provide participants
information about the new regulations and how it will impact your
organization. This seminar will benefit respiratory program
administrators, medical personnel, safety, human resources, fire person=
nel,
corporate auditors and others involved with respiratory protection. The=

seminar will help explain the new changes and prepare you for implement=
ing
the new requirements. Professionals can also benefit by gaining knowle=
dge
of the standards without having to review in detail the 150 pages of
Federal Register preamble text.

Registration
Call Martin Lewis at: (860) 290-6665 x127 or Fax to: (860) 290-6673 to =
make
reservations. Name, Address, Phone and email. Awarded .4 CEUs=
and
.5 CMs #11679.
Payment: $65.00 Fee payable to CT Valley Chapter, ASSE.
For cancellations please call before November 13,1998.
=

--0__=H5oxFYftldPk6ItuQ7tVEk7Xcby8v3X1b5qz1829fwvEUwMJ6sRpO97k--
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:05:12 -0500
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: Fire Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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In general, spontaneous combustion starts by oxidation of double and triple
bonds in the oil. linseed has a lot of triple bonds and is a triglyceride.
Cooking oils are also triglycerides, but with less unsaturation. IMHO, it
could happen!

Hope that helps.

Bob

"Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!"

Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
RUETGERS Organics Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Abramowitz <dabramo1@SWARTHMORE.EDU>
To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 11:18
Subject: Fire Question

>This question is a short walk from laboratory safety (to the campus cafe,
>actually), but I would appreciate any insights on the following:
>
>We had a small fire* recently in our cafe that started in a plastic trash
>can (probably no lid) used to collect used clean-up rags for laundering.
>The smoke detectors and sprinkler tripped around 6:00 AM, about 7 hours
>after the building was closed up for the night. Investigators speculate
>that a rag may have been used to wipe down the hot grill, then unknowingly
>placed in
>the can smoldering. My question concerns the actual cause of ignition.
>
>The grill is frequently cleaned while hot using a good squirt
>of cooking oil, which ends up on the rag when it makes its way to the can.
>The oil in this instance is a blend of "vegetable" oil, soybean oil, and
>"olive pomace" oil. The rags also contain some sooty cooking grease and
>oil residues that had been well heated in the course of cooking. Other
>cleaning rags in the can contain residues of glass cleaner, all purpose
>cleaner, and a
>degreaser containing some monoethanolamine.
>
>My question is: Does anyone know of any cooking oils capable of
>reacting/polymerizing
>with air to generate heat, the way linseed oil does, so as to be able to
>set rags on fire by "spontaneous combustion"?
>I believe boiled linseed oil is more likely than raw linseed oil to
>self-ignite, and I'm wondering if the cooked oils might behave similarly.
>
>As to the theory that a rag was heated on the grill to the point of
>smoldering, then carried a good distance (down a flight of stairs) to the
>storage can by hand, I'm
>thinking that hand would notice something was amiss. Also, with the oil on
>the rag, I imagine it would be likely to burn with a flame rather than
>smolder for many hours if it was so heated. I don't expect that the
>cleaning products would react with anything in the can, as they are fairly
>diluted in water in use, but I'm open to ideas.
>
>In any case, we will be switching to a self-closing metal can for
>collecting our wash rags.
>
>I would appreciate any information, opinions, or from-the-hip theories on
>possible fire causes in this situation.
>
> Thanks,
> Don
>
>*The fire stayed small thanks to a sprinkler head directly over the can. A
>textbook argument for sprinklering every campus building!
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~
> Don Abramowitz, CIH
> Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer
>
> Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
> 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
> Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081
>
>Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
>Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
>
>
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:33:24 -0500
From: Dewey Williams <williams@EMAIL.UNCC.EDU>
Subject: First Contact - player2.trn (was Re: Fire Question)
Comments: To: verruchter@menagerie.net
In-Reply-To: <v01540b05b264c7d1ab9a@[165.106.151.38]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_75976092==_"

--=====================_75976092==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11/3/98 -0400, you wrote:
>This question is a short walk from laboratory safety (to the campus cafe,
>actually), but I would appreciate any insights on the following:
>
>We had a small fire* recently in our cafe that started in a plastic trash
>can (probably no lid) used to collect used clean-up rags for laundering.
>The smoke detectors and sprinkler tripped around 6:00 AM, about 7 hours
>after the building was closed up for the night. Investigators speculate
>that a rag may have been used to wipe down the hot grill, then unknowingly
>placed in
>the can smoldering. My question concerns the actual cause of ignition.
>
>The grill is frequently cleaned while hot using a good squirt
>of cooking oil, which ends up on the rag when it makes its way to the can.
>The oil in this instance is a blend of "vegetable" oil, soybean oil, and
>"olive pomace" oil. The rags also contain some sooty cooking grease and
>oil residues that had been well heated in the course of cooking. Other
>cleaning rags in the can contain residues of glass cleaner, all purpose
>cleaner, and a
>degreaser containing some monoethanolamine.
>
>My question is: Does anyone know of any cooking oils capable of
>reacting/polymerizing
>with air to generate heat, the way linseed oil does, so as to be able to
>set rags on fire by "spontaneous combustion"?
>I believe boiled linseed oil is more likely than raw linseed oil to
>self-ignite, and I'm wondering if the cooked oils might behave similarly.
>
>As to the theory that a rag was heated on the grill to the point of
>smoldering, then carried a good distance (down a flight of stairs) to the
>storage can by hand, I'm
>thinking that hand would notice something was amiss. Also, with the oil on
>the rag, I imagine it would be likely to burn with a flame rather than
>smolder for many hours if it was so heated. I don't expect that the
>cleaning products would react with anything in the can, as they are fairly
>diluted in water in use, but I'm open to ideas.
>
>In any case, we will be switching to a self-closing metal can for
>collecting our wash rags.
>
>I would appreciate any information, opinions, or from-the-hip theories on
>possible fire causes in this situation.
>
> Thanks,
> Don
>
>*The fire stayed small thanks to a sprinkler head directly over the can. A
>textbook argument for sprinklering every campus building!
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Don Abramowitz, CIH
> Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer
>
> Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
> 101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
> Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081
>
>Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
>Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837

==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:39:26 +1300
From: Tony Haggerty <techton@IHUG.CO.NZ>
Subject: Re: Fire Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BE07E8.9B42B580
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Don,
I can confirm that cooking oils have been known to spontaneously =
combust. It is relatively rare compared to Linseed or Tung Oils but =
under some circumstances has happened.

Our experience has been with Take-Away premises catching fire. The =
theory has been that although cooking oils are well down the index of =
Spontaneous Combustibility, the fact that the oils are pre warmed and =
that the disposal environment is also often warm, pre disposes the oils =
to oxidise and combust.

Another factor is the use of cotton rags which have a lower auto =
ignition temperature than synthetics but are used because of their =
absorbent capabilities.

The Fire Safety advice is to use a metal can with a lid, reducing the =
available oxygen. If that is not immediately available then the rags =
should be spread out flat and the oxidation can take place with the =
dissipation of the heat safely to atmosphere.

Tony Haggerty
Hazardous Substance Adviser
For
The Regional Manager
Auckland Region

==============================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:58:24 EST
From: Brian Wazlaw <BriWazlaw@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Sabbatical
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Janeen,

I will be in contact with you. I will probably need your help.

Brian
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:06:00 -0500
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: Re: Fire Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

A response from a friend of mine who is a Compliance Officer as well as
having 20+ years in fire and rescue services and serving on the local Haz
Mat Team:

Very interesting situation. I'm at a loss as to a potential cause,
but the rag placed smoldering into the can doesn't seem likely. And he also
stated the "Investigators speculate[d]" as to the cause, so it would seem
that they aren't sure either. Probably couldn't come up with anything else,
so they called it smoldering.

It's not stated whether the author got to see what was left in the
can
after the fire. If the material in the can was pretty much "decomposed,"
then I think the "smoldering cause" could be valid. Additionally, I'd want
to know if the complete contents of the can was *thoroughly* check for
another ignition source, such as a match. The fire in a laundry bin at
Leland Memorial was term "unknown cause." Yet, the day after the fire, I
inspected the laundry bin and found a burnt match. While there's the
possibility the match could have been tossed in after the other contents had
been removed, it also poses the possibility that it could have been a set
fire.

If you see any outcome or additional information on this incident,
I'd appreciate it if you'd send me the e-mail.

P.S. - the note about sprinkling all campus builds is *SO* important. :)

----------
From: Don Abramowitz
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Fire Question
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 10:16AM

This question is a short walk from laboratory safety (to the campus cafe,
actually), but I would appreciate any insights on the following:

We had a small fire* recently in our cafe that started in a plastic trash
can (probably no lid) used to collect used clean-up rags for laundering.
The smoke detectors and sprinkler tripped around 6:00 AM, about 7 hours
after the building was closed up for the night. Investigators speculate
that a rag may have been used to wipe down the hot grill, then unknowingly
placed in
the can smoldering. My question concerns the actual cause of ignition.

The grill is frequently cleaned while hot using a good squirt
of cooking oil, which ends up on the rag when it makes its way to the can.
The oil in this instance is a blend of "vegetable" oil, soybean oil, and
"olive pomace" oil. The rags also contain some sooty cooking grease and
oil residues that had been well heated in the course of cooking. Other
cleaning rags in the can contain residues of glass cleaner, all purpose
cleaner, and a
degreaser containing some monoethanolamine.

My question is: Does anyone know of any cooking oils capable of
reacting/polymerizing
with air to generate heat, the way linseed oil does, so as to be able to
set rags on fire by "spontaneous combustion"?
I believe boiled linseed oil is more likely than raw linseed oil to
self-ignite, and I'm wondering if the cooked oils might behave similarly.

As to the theory that a rag was heated on the grill to the point of
smoldering, then carried a good distance (down a flight of stairs) to the
storage can by hand, I'm
thinking that hand would notice something was amiss. Also, with the oil on
the rag, I imagine it would be likely to burn with a flame rather than
smolder for many hours if it was so heated. I don't expect that the
cleaning products would react with anything in the can, as they are fairly
diluted in water in use, but I'm open to ideas.

In any case, we will be switching to a self-closing metal can for
collecting our wash rags.

I would appreciate any information, opinions, or from-the-hip theories on
possible fire causes in this situation.

Thanks,
Don

*The fire stayed small thanks to a sprinkler head directly over the can. A
textbook argument for sprinklering every campus building!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~
Don Abramowitz, CIH
Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer

Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081

Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:31:23 -0700
From: "Greene, Ben" <bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Lab Safety Training Videos
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Anyone know of sources (titles, vendors) for some REALLY attention
grabbing, industrial strength, chemistry lab- or hazardous
materials-related safety training videos? I'd like some of our lab
workers to see some compressed gas cylinders rocketing about, lab
accident investigations, etc. I'm familiar with what is currently
available through ACS, Lab Safety Supply, Howard Hughes Medical
Institute, and I have the 1968 Eye and Face Protection video.

Ben Greene, Ph.D (Chemical Hygiene Officer)
AlliedSignal
PO Box 20
Las Cruces, NM 88004
Ph. 505-524-5761
Fax 505-524-5597
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:25:01 -0600
From: "Lampe Hannasch, Kay" <LAMPEHANNKM@PHIBRED.COM>
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Training Videos
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Contact the Compressed Gas Association for their safety training videotapes
about cylinders. These are well done.

Kay Lampe Hannasch, Safety Manager - Research Labs
Pioneer Hi-Bred International, Inc.

The opinions expressed here are mine, not that of my employer.

-----Original Message-----
From: Greene, Ben [mailto:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV]
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 8:31 AM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Lab Safety Training Videos

Anyone know of sources (titles, vendors) for some REALLY attention
grabbing, industrial strength, chemistry lab- or hazardous
materials-related safety training videos? I'd like some of our lab
workers to see some compressed gas cylinders rocketing about, lab
accident investigations, etc. I'm familiar with what is currently
available through ACS, Lab Safety Supply, Howard Hughes Medical
Institute, and I have the 1968 Eye and Face Protection video.

Ben Greene, Ph.D (Chemical Hygiene Officer)
AlliedSignal
PO Box 20
Las Cruces, NM 88004
Ph. 505-524-5761
Fax 505-524-5597
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:22:34 EDT
From: Jennifer Reader <JENNIFER@EHS.UOGUELPH.CA>
Organization: Environmental Health and Safety
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Training Videos

The Crash Boom Bang video is:

Introduction to Reactive and Explosive Materials
Produced by Hazards Productions Inc.

We bought ours from Westwood Screen, Mississauga Ontario
416-890-2305.

It says on t he tape distributed by
NUS Training Corporation
Gaithersburg, Md.

800-338-1505

I have no idea if it is still made or whether the company is
still in business. The tape was made in l988. Everyone loves
it that sees it. It was expensive at the time, something like
$300 plus.

Good luck.

Jennifer Reader, B.S., M.S.P.H.
Hazardous Materials Safety Officer
Environmental Health and Safety
University of Guelph
Guelph, Ontario N1G 2W1 Canada
519-824-4120 X3190 Fax 519-824-0364
e-Mail jennifer@ehs.uoguelph.ca
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:37:10 +0000
Reply-To: rbyingtn@memphis.edu
Comments: Authenticated sender is <rbyingtn@latte.memphis.edu>
From: Bob Byington <rbyingtn@LATTE.MEMPHIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Training Videos
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Ben,
There are two good sources for compressed gas cylinder safety
training materials. J.T. Baker has some good still shots of the
aftermath of a "rocketing" of cylinders that we are presently using.
I am not aware of any videos showing an actual mishap of this nature,
but you might try companies like Air Products or any compressed gas
cylinder company. I have used Air Products people as outside
training sources when I was Safety Officer for Scientific &
Regulatory Affairs with Schering-Plough HealthCare Products. They
are usually all to happy to come out and assist in training of safe
handling of their product.

As far as Chemical Hygiene issues, "outcome" slides which show
effects that chemicals have on the human body are usually enough to
scare the crud out of people. Again, if you are going for this type
of shock treatment, J.T. Baker has some wonderful slides. No, this
is not a shameless plug nor am I compensated by Baker for this, it
just what we use and it has always proven effective. If its gross,
it will grab their attention.

Hope this helps,

Bob Byington
Laboratory Safety Specialist
Environmental Health and Safety
111 Brister Tower
The University of Memphis
Memphis, TN 38152-6191
(901) 678-4672 fax (901) 678-4673
email to: rbyingtn@memphis.edu
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:24:49 -0600
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Training Videos
In-Reply-To: <475CE84BF0@ehsnet.nw.uoguelph.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Ditto - we use it in our lab-safety training. Not a stand-alone video, but
many nice explosions.

JNR

>The Crash Boom Bang video is:
>
>Introduction to Reactive and Explosive Materials
>Produced by Hazards Productions Inc.

Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu

"The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise
specified."
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:55:52 -0800
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Training Videos
In-Reply-To: <475CE84BF0@ehsnet.nw.uoguelph.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:22 AM 11/4/98 EDT, you wrote:
>The Crash Boom Bang video is:
>
>Introduction to Reactive and Explosive Materials
>Produced by Hazards Productions Inc.
>
>We bought ours from Westwood Screen, Mississauga Ontario
>416-890-2305.
>
Yup - I'll second this one. It's a good one though it's a bit out of date
on the classifications of explosives (in light of HM181 etc.). I haven't
been able to find out if these guys made any more or if the tape has been
updated. The explosions are cool and the chemistry is good.

Deb.

Debbie Decker
EH&S UCDavis
(530)754-7964
dmdecker@ucdavis.edu
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:22:50 -0500
From: Paula Ortiz <portiz@WSCC.EDU>
Subject: visually impaired
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi NACHO'ers,

I have a question. We currently have a visually impaired student in a
chemistry class that has a lab section. Under ADA, we cannot dismiss the
student from the class so...we have to protect this individual as well as
the "seeing eye dog". Has anyone had any experience with visually impaired
students with seeing eye dogs? Does anyone know where I can purchase
safety goggles for the dog? I need your help...PLEASE!!!!!

Thanks...:)

Paula Ortiz, CCHO, CPT
Science Laboratory Technician
Washington State Community College
710 Colegate Dr.
Marietta, OH 45750
phone: 740-374.8716
email: portiz@wscc.edu
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:56:41 -0500
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: visually impaired
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

What I would try to do is ask the student to keep the dog outside the lab
door. Guide dogs will sit and stay on command. Then ask another student to
work with the visually impaired one in lab. That seems to be "reasonable
accommodation" as required by ADA. You're going to have to have another
person present anyway to tell about color changes and pH meter readings and
the like.

Just my opinion.

Bob

"Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!"

Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
RUETGERS Organics Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Paula Ortiz <portiz@WSCC.EDU>
To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 13:18
Subject: visually impaired

>Hi NACHO'ers,
>
>I have a question. We currently have a visually impaired student in a
>chemistry class that has a lab section. Under ADA, we cannot dismiss the
>student from the class so...we have to protect this individual as well as
>the "seeing eye dog". Has anyone had any experience with visually impaired
>students with seeing eye dogs? Does anyone know where I can purchase
>safety goggles for the dog? I need your help...PLEASE!!!!!
>
>
>Thanks...:)
>
>
>Paula Ortiz, CCHO, CPT
>Science Laboratory Technician
>Washington State Community College
>710 Colegate Dr.
>Marietta, OH 45750
>phone: 740-374.8716
>email: portiz@wscc.edu
>
>
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:28:36 -0500
From: Mary Ann Solstad <msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET>
Subject: Re: visually impaired
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981104132250.00695390@wscc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:22 PM 11/4/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi NACHO'ers,
>
>I have a question. We currently have a visually impaired student in a
>chemistry class that has a lab section. Under ADA, we cannot dismiss the
>student from the class so...we have to protect this individual as well as
>the "seeing eye dog". Has anyone had any experience with visually impaired
>students with seeing eye dogs? Does anyone know where I can purchase
>safety goggles for the dog? I need your help...PLEASE!!!!!
>
>
>Thanks...:)
>
>
>Paula Ortiz, CCHO, CPT
>Science Laboratory Technician
>Washington State Community College
>710 Colegate Dr.
>Marietta, OH 45750
>phone: 740-374.8716
>email: portiz@wscc.edu
>
How visually impaired? Can she see light and dark, or are things totally
dark. For the sake of her dog, I would recommend that the dog be kept in a
nearby anteroom or hall. His sensitive nose would probably go into
overdrive and make the dog miserable. Not to mention the effect of any
spill, or spill residue on nose or unprotected feet. There is also a
tripping hazard from a dog trying to rest in the usually narrow aisles.
Those dogs are usually well-trained enough to stay put until called.

Good luck,

Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 4 A's of Safety
SOLSTAD Health & Safety Evaluations Attitude
16 Pequot Rd, Marblehead, MA 01945 Awareness
781-631-4748 tel, 781-631-1832 FAX Automatic Application
Authority
DivCHAS Chair, ACS
msolstad@mediaone.net
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:50:55 -0800
From: Mike hinz <mhinz@WSU.EDU>
Subject: Blind student
Comments: To: portiz@wscc.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Paula,
We had a blind student a few years ago. In a similar situation, we
have a quadriplegic student now and have had several paraplegic students.
These special needs students are paired with an able bodied student or a
facilitator and make observations of that which takes place or is described
to them. We have actually had more difficulty accommodating deaf students
but these students have not been that tough to put through chemistry. It
just takes people who refuse to think of what can't be done and instead
think of what can be done.
For the dog's safety I would suggest it stay out of the lab. No
telling what it might pick up on its feet off the lab floor, for example.
Being from Washington State University, I'm curious as to how your
school came by its name.

Mike Hinz
Chemistry Dept.
Washington State University
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:41:00 -0500
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: Re: visually impaired
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Does ADA say that we have to accomodate the DOG?
----------
From: Paula Ortiz
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: visually impaired
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 1:22PM

Hi NACHO'ers,

I have a question. We currently have a visually impaired student in a
chemistry class that has a lab section. Under ADA, we cannot dismiss the
student from the class so...we have to protect this individual as well as
the "seeing eye dog". Has anyone had any experience with visually impaired
students with seeing eye dogs? Does anyone know where I can purchase
safety goggles for the dog? I need your help...PLEASE!!!!!

Thanks...:)

Paula Ortiz, CCHO, CPT
Science Laboratory Technician
Washington State Community College
710 Colegate Dr.
Marietta, OH 45750
phone: 740-374.8716
email: portiz@wscc.edu
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:51:00 -0500
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: Re: visually impaired
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Our DSS (Disabled Student Services - not the most PC name!) office supplies
assistants, interpreters, etc. for this sort of thing. I would much prefer
that over letting that poor dog into the lab! There's no way the dog could
give informed consent! ;>

Tammy Tayman
----------
From: Bob Burns
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: visually impaired
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 1:56PM

What I would try to do is ask the student to keep the dog outside the lab
door. Guide dogs will sit and stay on command. Then ask another student to
work with the visually impaired one in lab. That seems to be "reasonable
accommodation" as required by ADA. You're going to have to have another
person present anyway to tell about color changes and pH meter readings and
the like.

Just my opinion.

Bob

"Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!"

Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
RUETGERS Organics Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Paula Ortiz <portiz@WSCC.EDU>
To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 13:18
Subject: visually impaired

>Hi NACHO'ers,
>
>I have a question. We currently have a visually impaired student in a
>chemistry class that has a lab section. Under ADA, we cannot dismiss the
>student from the class so...we have to protect this individual as well as
>the "seeing eye dog". Has anyone had any experience with visually impaired
>students with seeing eye dogs? Does anyone know where I can purchase
>safety goggles for the dog? I need your help...PLEASE!!!!!
>
>
>Thanks...:)
>
>
>Paula Ortiz, CCHO, CPT
>Science Laboratory Technician
>Washington State Community College
>710 Colegate Dr.
>Marietta, OH 45750
>phone: 740-374.8716
>email: portiz@wscc.edu
>
>
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:45:34 -0500
From: "Norman, Randy" <RNorman@BIORELIANCE.COM>
Subject: Re: visually impaired
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

<Does ADA say that we have to accomodate the DOG?>

I take it you were responding to the absurdity of the idea of a dog
in Safety Goggles?

It would seem that we certainly cannot flatly ignore the dog. So in that
respect we need to work out some kind of arrangement to deal with the dog
while the student is in class as part of our accomodating the student. I
can't say what might come out in a court of law, but the dog has to be
figured into the equation somewhere.

Randy Norman
Safety Specialist Sr.
BioReliance Corporation
Rockville, MD 20850
Rnorman@bioreliance.com <mailto:Rnorman@bioreliance.com>

"Success is a journey, not a destination" - Ben Sweetland

From: Paula Ortiz
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: visually impaired
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 1:22PM

Hi NACHO'ers,

I have a question. We currently have a visually impaired student in
a
chemistry class that has a lab section. Under ADA, we cannot
dismiss the
student from the class so...we have to protect this individual as
well as
the "seeing eye dog". Has anyone had any experience with visually
impaired
students with seeing eye dogs? Does anyone know where I can
purchase
safety goggles for the dog? I need your help...PLEASE!!!!!

Thanks...:)

Paula Ortiz, CCHO, CPT
Science Laboratory Technician
Washington State Community College
710 Colegate Dr.
Marietta, OH 45750
phone: 740-374.8716
email: portiz@wscc.edu
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:53:44 EST
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: NACHO Update
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_910270425_boundary"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--part0_910270425_boundary
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Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Hi NACHO Members,

Our numbers are growing. There's been a recent bust of new folks joining the
association. Let's all keep finding new members. Be selfish! The more folks
who join, the larger the brain bank to solve our problems. Can we reach 1,000
by January 1st? Not without your help. Please post the membership
announcement (attached) to all the other lists/newsgroups/bulletin boards/etc.
you can think of.

Work for NACHO? We do have a steering committee. It's composed of all the
members who would like to work on a project to develop and improve our
association. Please let me know if you are interested.

Next NACHO meeting! We are planning a public meeting in conjunction with the
New Safety '99 conference being held the first week in January at Trinity
College in Hartford, CT. The meeting is likely to be in the evening from
6-9pm following the CHO Workshop. As the date and location become clearer, it
will be announced here. Naturally, you know what will be served.

The ACS meeting in Anaheim, CA in March will be the site of the next NACHO
meeting. We will repeat the idea of a breakfast which was so successful in
Boston this past Fall. The NACHO Breakfast will be held from 7-8:30am on the
first Monday of the ACS meeting. It will be in the restaurant of the same
hotel as the meeting of the Council Committee on Chemical Safety. The CCCS
meets from 8:30 to Noon.

Last thought. What can we do to improve NACHO? ... jim

*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education

The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.

The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSI.
Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG
**********************************************************************

--part0_910270425_boundary
Content-ID: <0_910270425@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2>
Content-type: text/plain;
name="NACHOJ~1"
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Content-disposition: inline

<HTML><PRE>The National Association of Chemical Hygiene Officers is a
new professional organization for CHO's. Affiliate membership
is open to anyone interested in CHO/CHP/Lab safety issues.
Membership is free.

Members interested in the discussion of lab safety, CHO/CHP, and
organizational issues will be able to share ideas and information on
the LABSAFETY-L list.

To become a member or affiliate member, subscribe to LABSAFETY-L.

Send a message to LISTSERV@SIU.EDU. In the body of the message say...
SUB LABSAFETY-L Your Name

For more information about NACHO, contact Jim Kaufman at the Laboratory
Safety Workshop.

*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education

The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership infromation are available on request.

The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of the Laboratory
safety workshop.

************************************************************************=
******

</PRE></HTML>

--part0_910270425_boundary--
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:13:25 -0500
From: Nick Pinizzotto <Nick.Pinizzotto@MAIL.TJU.EDU>
Subject: Houston reporter
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="openmail-part-039dca56-00000001"

--openmail-part-039dca56-00000001
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Houston"
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Houston"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey everyone, My boss just forwarded me this message from the Safety group
list of the Campus Safety Health and Environmental Association(formally the
Campus Safety Association).
Thought some of you would want to contribute!

Nick Pinizzotto
Environmental Health Officer
Dept. Environmental Health & Safety
Thomas Jefferson University
nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu
215-503-5853

--openmail-part-039dca56-00000001
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:56:37 -0500
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Subject: Houston reporter
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: Martha#f#Anderson/internet////////RFC-822/Martha#f#Anderson#a#mail#f#tju#f#edu@hpmail1
From: "Martha Anderson" <Martha.Anderson@mail.tju.edu>
TO: nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu
Content-Type: multipart/Mixed; boundary="openmail-part-039dca56-00000002"

--openmail-part-039dca56-00000002
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Houston"
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Houston.TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nick, imagine!! This man wants the unwritten chapters of MY book!!
--openmail-part-039dca56-00000002
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:56:53 -0500
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Subject: Houston reporter
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: Martha#f#Anderson/internet////////RFC-822/Martha#f#Anderson#a#mail#f#tju#f#edu@hpmail1
From: James.Morris@CHRON.COM
TO: SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU
Content-Type: multipart/Mixed; boundary="openmail-part-039dca56-00000003"

--openmail-part-039dca56-00000003
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Houston.TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

To all health and safety people:

I'm Jim Morris, a special projects reporter with the Houston Chronicle.
I'm researching a piece on laboratory exposures/safety/standards and am
collecting anecdotes from around the country. I'd be interested in
hearing from anyone with a story to tell about a university or
private-industry lab. You can e-mail me, or call me at (713) 220-7948.

Thanks.
--openmail-part-039dca56-00000003--

--openmail-part-039dca56-00000002--

--openmail-part-039dca56-00000001--
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:06:40 -0600
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Houston reporter
In-Reply-To: <H000021d01b4e0e0@MHS>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This is an opportunity to raise some consciousness, but be careful. I've
worked closely with the media for several years, and it's easy to see
something in print that may not be what you intended. There is no such
thing as "off the record." If you're not clear about a question, ask for
clarification. Mistakes are more common than you might believe: confirm
that what you consider important information has been received accurately.
Remember - a reporter's goals probably are not the same as yours.

This isn't an indictment - an intelligent, diligent, ethical reporter (yes,
they do exist, and they're a pleasure to deal with) is a boon to society.
Reporters who do not fit into that select group (they exist in greater
numbers) can make life uncomfortable and make everyone's job more
difficult. I rarely get burned, but I know a lot of people who have.

Have fun - just be careful.

Onward,

JNR

>Hey everyone, My boss just forwarded me this message from the Safety group
>list of the Campus Safety Health and Environmental Association(formally the
>Campus Safety Association).
>Thought some of you would want to contribute!
>
>Nick Pinizzotto
>Environmental Health Officer
>Dept. Environmental Health & Safety
>Thomas Jefferson University
>nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu
>215-503-5853

Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu

"The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise
specified."
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:00:07 -0500
From: Nick Pinizzotto <Nick.Pinizzotto@MAIL.TJU.EDU>
Subject: Houston reporter
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="openmail-part-039e1200-00000001"

--openmail-part-039e1200-00000001
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Houston"
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Houston"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Tammy,
How about now?

I'm sorry, I have my head in a bucket. New house & new baby....need I say
more?

Please comfirm that you recieved the content.

Nick Pinizzotto
Environmental Health Officer
Dept. Environmental Health & Safety
Thomas Jefferson University
nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu
215-503-5853

--openmail-part-039e1200-00000001
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:56:37 -0500
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Subject: Houston reporter
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: Martha#f#Anderson/internet////////RFC-822/Martha#f#Anderson#a#mail#f#tju#f#edu@hpmail1
From: "Martha Anderson" <Martha.Anderson@mail.tju.edu>
TO: nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu
Content-Type: multipart/Mixed; boundary="openmail-part-039e1200-00000002"

--openmail-part-039e1200-00000002
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Houston"
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Houston.TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nick, imagine!! This man wants the unwritten chapters of MY book!!
--openmail-part-039e1200-00000002
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:56:53 -0500
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Subject: Houston reporter
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: Martha#f#Anderson/internet////////RFC-822/Martha#f#Anderson#a#mail#f#tju#f#edu@hpmail1
From: James.Morris@CHRON.COM
TO: SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU
Content-Type: multipart/Mixed; boundary="openmail-part-039e1200-00000003"

--openmail-part-039e1200-00000003
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Houston.TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

To all health and safety people:

I'm Jim Morris, a special projects reporter with the Houston Chronicle.
I'm researching a piece on laboratory exposures/safety/standards and am
collecting anecdotes from around the country. I'd be interested in
hearing from anyone with a story to tell about a university or
private-industry lab. You can e-mail me, or call me at (713) 220-7948.

Thanks.
--openmail-part-039e1200-00000003--

--openmail-part-039e1200-00000002--

--openmail-part-039e1200-00000001--
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:05:21 -0500
From: "Gonzalez, Lisa" <Lisa.Gonzalez@PHARMA.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO Update
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Jim-

Can you copy & paste the entire web address into the email message. I
can't open the attachment, it's getting cut off.

Thanks-
Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM [SMTP:Labsafe@AOL.COM]
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 7:54 AM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: NACHO Update

Hi NACHO Members,

Our numbers are growing. There's been a recent bust of new
folks joining the
association. Let's all keep finding new members. Be selfish!
The more folks
who join, the larger the brain bank to solve our problems. Can
we reach 1,000
by January 1st? Not without your help. Please post the
membership
announcement (attached) to all the other
lists/newsgroups/bulletin boards/etc.
you can think of.

Work for NACHO? We do have a steering committee. It's composed
of all the
members who would like to work on a project to develop and
improve our
association. Please let me know if you are interested.

Next NACHO meeting! We are planning a public meeting in
conjunction with the
New Safety '99 conference being held the first week in January
at Trinity
College in Hartford, CT. The meeting is likely to be in the
evening from
6-9pm following the CHO Workshop. As the date and location
become clearer, it
will be announced here. Naturally, you know what will be
served.

The ACS meeting in Anaheim, CA in March will be the site of the
next NACHO
meeting. We will repeat the idea of a breakfast which was so
successful in
Boston this past Fall. The NACHO Breakfast will be held from
7-8:30am on the
first Monday of the ACS meeting. It will be in the restaurant
of the same
hotel as the meeting of the Council Committee on Chemical
Safety. The CCCS
meets from 8:30 to Noon.

Last thought. What can we do to improve NACHO? ... jim

*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education

The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit
educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral
and
important part of science education. Free copies of our
Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List,
seminar
schedule, and membership information are available on request.

The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSI.
Visit our growing web site at www:LABSAFETY.ORG

**********************************************************************
<< File: NACHOJ~1 >>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:31:00 -0500
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: Re: Congrats
Comments: To: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@mail.utexas.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Um, actually, MY baby is seventeen. I think the house/baby in question is
Nick's. Congrats to the proud papa/homeowner! :>

Tammy
----------
From: Jeff Rubin
To: ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US
Subject: Congrats
Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 11:25AM

Tammy,

New baby? Congratulations!

JNR

Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu

"The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise
specified."
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:49:06 -0800
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Houston reporter
In-Reply-To: <H000021d01b4e0e0@MHS>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:13 AM 11/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey everyone, My boss just forwarded me this message from the Safety group
>list of the Campus Safety Health and Environmental Association(formally the
>Campus Safety Association).
>Thought some of you would want to contribute!

>TO: SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU
>To all health and safety people:
>
>I'm Jim Morris, a special projects reporter with the Houston Chronicle.
>I'm researching a piece on laboratory exposures/safety/standards and am
>collecting anecdotes from around the country. I'd be interested in
>hearing from anyone with a story to tell about a university or
>private-industry lab. You can e-mail me, or call me at (713) 220-7948.
>
Before anyone gets involved, I would suggest you webout and look at this
gentleman's work for the Houston Chronicle - particularly an article
published on 10/25/98. Go to the Houston Chronicle website (go through the
simple but tedious registration process - no obligation) and search for
"Jim Morris." Interesting.......

Deb.

Debbie Decker
EH&S UCDavis
(530)754-7964
dmdecker@ucdavis.edu
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:06:51 -0500
From: JA Steffens <steffens@CHEM.UFL.EDU>
Organization: UF
Subject: Re: Crash Boom Bang Video
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The video is still available from:
Hazards Productions Inc.
973-729-4161
$495.00
brochure available
ask about preview before you buy
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:45:35 -0800
From: Debbie Decker <dmdecker@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Houston Chronicle
Comments: To: NRCC6@aol.com
In-Reply-To: <e91b5a35.3641e427@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:45 PM 11/5/98 EST, you wrote:
>Can you give me the web address for Houston Chronicle?
>Thanks.
>Gilbert Smith
>NRCC
>
www.chron.com

Deb.
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:38:08 -0700
From: Roger Delong <RDelong@PSEDD.COM>
Subject: Re: Crash Boom Bang Video
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Hazards Productions Website is:

http://www.rhr-inc.com/home.htm

> -----Original Message-----
> From: JA Steffens [SMTP:steffens@CHEM.UFL.EDU]
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 12:07 PM
> To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
> Subject: Re: Crash Boom Bang Video
>
> The video is still available from:
> Hazards Productions Inc.
> 973-729-4161
> $495.00
> brochure available
> ask about preview before you buy
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:24:17 -0700
From: "Greene, Ben" <bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV>
Subject: ANSI Z358.1-1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

I recently compared the American National Standard for Emergency Eyewash
and Shower Equipment ANSI Z358.1-1998 revision to the 1990 revision.
For those of you using potable water as a flushing fluid for plumbed
units, what are you doing to ensure that the water is "tepid" as
specified by that standard? This could be a real problem in the colder
environments, for both indoor and outdoor units. Thanks,

Ben Greene, Ph.D
AlliedSignal
Las Cruces, NM 88004
bgreene@wstf.nasa.gov
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:58:57 -0700
From: "Helen B. Gerhard" <hbgerhard@MEDLOGIC.COM>
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

What temperature range is considered tepid? Does the current CFR 29 require
ANSI Z358.1-1998 to be used or do we have a little time before the
regulations catch up with the standards? Does anyone have any ideas of how
this can be accomplished cost effectively?

Thanks!

Helen

-----Original Message-----
From: Greene, Ben [SMTP:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV]
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 3:24 PM
To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu
Subject: ANSI Z358.1-1998

I recently compared the American National Standard for Emergency
Eyewash
and Shower Equipment ANSI Z358.1-1998 revision to the 1990 revision.
For those of you using potable water as a flushing fluid for plumbed
units, what are you doing to ensure that the water is "tepid" as
specified by that standard? This could be a real problem in the
colder
environments, for both indoor and outdoor units. Thanks,

Ben Greene, Ph.D
AlliedSignal
Las Cruces, NM 88004
bgreene@wstf.nasa.gov
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 20:23:00 EST
From: Marshall Huckaby <RVNLRRP@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO Update
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Since I am in the Atlanta area, any interest in getting a meeting or two down
here?
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:52:07 -0700
From: Teresa Robertson <Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU>
Organization: CSU Bakersfield
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu,.internet writes:
>What temperature range is considered tepid?

Per the Lab Safety Supply Catalog it is 60 to 95 degrees F.

Lab Safety also says in addition to a thermometer to check the water
temp, needed are volume test equipment, a pattern tester to measure the
20" diameter requirement, a flow tester to measure dual stream rinse, a
tape measure to check heights and target area clearance, a watch to
time the testing, and a radio to confirm remote and local alarm.
Teresa Robertson, CSUB CCHO

>Thanks!

>Helen
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:51:51 EST
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: NACHO Update
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hi Lisa,

What is the web address that you are referring to? ... jim
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:17:33 -0500
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

We have installed mixing valves on units to supply tepid water. The trick =
was to go around and set all those valves. Some stations were still cold =
and some were hot. Luckily this was caught in our routine inspection and =
not when they were actually needed. Lack of communication between =
facilities people and safety folks rears its ugly head once again. Good =
luck, Janeen.

*****************
Janeen Lapierre, CHO
College of Osteopathic Medicine
University of New England
11 Hills Beach Road
Biddeford, ME 04005

E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446
Opinions are mine and not those of UNE.=20

>>> "Greene, Ben" <bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV> - 11/5/98 5:24 PM >>>
I recently compared the American National Standard for Emergency Eyewash
and Shower Equipment ANSI Z358.1-1998 revision to the 1990 revision.
For those of you using potable water as a flushing fluid for plumbed
units, what are you doing to ensure that the water is "tepid" as
specified by that standard? This could be a real problem in the colder
environments, for both indoor and outdoor units. Thanks,

Ben Greene, Ph.D
AlliedSignal
Las Cruces, NM 88004
bgreene@wstf.nasa.gov
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:08:47 -0500
From: Bob Burns <rburns@BIGFOOT.COM>
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've been following this discussion with great interest.

Does anyone know if this is a requirement? If so, where is it documented?

Our plant guys know nothing about it. The outside stations are particularly
hard to control, since typically there is no hot water to mix. There is
usually steam, but steam/water mixers are notorious for failing and giving
straight steam. The thought of some poor operator needing an eye wash and
getting a face full of steam is just too horrible to contemplate.

Thanks for your help.

"Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!"

Robert L. Burns
Group Leader, R&D
RUETGERS Organics Corporation
201 Struble Road
State College, PA 16801
phone 814-231-9214
fax 814-238-1567
email rburns@bigfoot.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 9:30
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998

>We have installed mixing valves on units to supply tepid water. The trick
was to go around and set all those valves. Some stations were still cold
and some were hot. Luckily this was caught in our routine inspection and
not when they were actually needed. Lack of communication between
facilities people and safety folks rears its ugly head once again. Good
luck, Janeen.
>
>*****************
>Janeen Lapierre, CHO
>College of Osteopathic Medicine
>University of New England
>11 Hills Beach Road
>Biddeford, ME 04005
>
>E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
>Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446
>Opinions are mine and not those of UNE.
>
>>>> "Greene, Ben" <bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV> - 11/5/98 5:24 PM >>>
>I recently compared the American National Standard for Emergency Eyewash
>and Shower Equipment ANSI Z358.1-1998 revision to the 1990 revision.
>For those of you using potable water as a flushing fluid for plumbed
>units, what are you doing to ensure that the water is "tepid" as
>specified by that standard? This could be a real problem in the colder
>environments, for both indoor and outdoor units. Thanks,
>
>Ben Greene, Ph.D
>AlliedSignal
>Las Cruces, NM 88004
>bgreene@wstf.nasa.gov
>
>
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:08:50 -0500
From: "Gonzalez, Lisa" <Lisa.Gonzalez@PHARMA.COM>
Subject: Re: NACHO Update
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Jim-

Sorry for the confusion. I could not open the attachment for the NACHO
announcement you included on your email yesterday. So..... I asked the
computer dept. to try. They said it was a web address & it was
incomplete, and addressed the email to you requesting the full address.

After I sent you the email, I realized it was an announcement not an
address.

All that said, can you re-send the attachment to me & I'll send it to
the computer dept. and have them open it.

Thanks-
Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM [SMTP:Labsafe@AOL.COM]
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 10:52 PM
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: NACHO Update

Hi Lisa,

What is the web address that you are referring to? ... jim
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:32:18 -0400
From: Don Abramowitz <dabramo1@SWARTHMORE.EDU>
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Does the current CFR 29 require
>ANSI Z358.1-1998 to be used or do we have a little time before the
>regulations catch up with the standards?
>

OSHA is not allowed to write standards that automatically "upgrade" to the
latest ANSI or other consensus standard on which a particular regulation
was based. Something about the Constitution, I suppose.

They have to go through the formal process of rulemaking, with public
notices, cost/risk/benefit analyses, comment periods, possible court
challenges, etc., to change a regulation. This (the court challenge part,
anyway) is why the bulk of the PELs (Permissible Exposure Limits) in
1910.1000 are still based on 1968 (or so) ACGIH TLVs (Threshold Limit
Values).

Don

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don Abramowitz, CIH
Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer

Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081

Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:38:35 -0500
From: "Norman, Randy" <RNorman@BIORELIANCE.COM>
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>OSHA is not allowed to write standards that automatically "upgrade"
to the
>latest ANSI or other consensus standard on which a particular
regulation
>was based.

However note OSHA's propensity to cite failure to follow concensus standards
and guidelines under the "General Duty Clause". Weaker, but still citations.
That said, a colleague has rightly noted that they don't have a case for
enforcing concensus unless there truly IS a concensus. Where "everybody"
chooses to reject parts of an ANSI standard as impractical for example
(e.g., in the opinion of some, mannikin testing of fume hoods per
ANSI/ASHRAE 110), OSHA can't say that you're exercising a lower standard of
care.

I've had "the willy's" about ANSI standards for some time. It's important
that we all work to assure that they truly present what we are prepared to
practice, or we could be backed up against the wall. Government rulemaking
procedures may be slow, but at least they make sure that EVERYBODY gets
ample opportunity to submit their input. I would not say that ANSI
standard-setters hide their activities. But I would suggest that we all need
to take a keener interest them! Am I alone in feeling this unease?

Randy Norman
Safety Specialist Sr.
BioReliance Corporation
Rockville, MD 20850
Rnorman@bioreliance.com <mailto:Rnorman@bioreliance.com>

"Success is a journey, not a destination" - Ben Sweetland

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~
Don Abramowitz, CIH
Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer

Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081

Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:01:00 -0500
From: "Tayman, Tammy" <ttayman@MC.CC.MD.US>
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

No, you are NOT alone in this. And as bad or worse than the OSHA games with
"standards" is the affect on the court system. Since we can get nailed for
not being "prudent and reasonable" in our efforts, whatever THAT means, most
of the time it's the ANSI standards that are brought up in lawsuits, not the
OSHA regs. Since the ANSI standards seem to be "handed down from on high",
I am very concerned about what they are recommending and how it is
recommended to be done.

Tammy Tayman

"My opinions only and anyone else to claims them is obviously reading my
mind!"
----------
From: Norman, Randy
To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 12:38PM

<snip>

I've had "the willy's" about ANSI standards for some time. It's important
that we all work to assure that they truly present what we are prepared to
practice, or we could be backed up against the wall. Government rulemaking
procedures may be slow, but at least they make sure that EVERYBODY gets
ample opportunity to submit their input. I would not say that ANSI
standard-setters hide their activities. But I would suggest that we all need
to take a keener interest them! Am I alone in feeling this unease?

Randy Norman
Safety Specialist Sr.
BioReliance Corporation
Rockville, MD 20850
Rnorman@bioreliance.com <mailto:Rnorman@bioreliance.com>

"Success is a journey, not a destination" - Ben Sweetland

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~
Don Abramowitz, CIH
Occupational and Environmental Safety Officer

Bryn Mawr College | Swarthmore College
101 N. Merion Avenue | 500 College Avenue
Bryn Mawr, PA 19010 | Swarthmore PA 19081

Telephone: (610) 526-5166 | (610) 328-8564
Fax: (610) 526-7499 | (610) 328-7837
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:46:57 -0500
From: Fran Martin <fmartin@CCSINC.COM>
Subject: New 1998 OSHA Regs on CD-ROM
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

FYI,

Lab and workplace safety officials who prefer CD-ROMs' speed and portability
may find this useful: The new 1998 edition of Title 29 (Labor/OSHA) of the
U.S. Code of Federal Regulations is on CD-ROM, featuring nine complete
volumes (6200 pages) plus the 49 other CFR Titles. PDF format. 5,000
in-line graphics.

See http://www.env-sol.com/solutions/CFR.HTML for more info.

Fran Martin
FM Research & Consulting
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:19:12 EST
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: NACHO Update
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hi Lisa,

Here's the file in this message. ... jim

The National Association of Chemical Hygiene Officers is a
new professional organization for CHO's. Affiliate membership
is open to anyone interested in CHO/CHP/Lab safety issues.
Membership is free.

Members interested in the discussion of lab safety, CHO/CHP, and
organizational issues will be able to share ideas and information on
the LABSAFETY-L list.

To become a member or affiliate member, subscribe to LABSAFETY-L.

Send a message to LISTSERV@SIU.EDU. In the body of the message say...
SUB LABSAFETY-L Your Name

For more information about NACHO, contact Jim Kaufman at the Laboratory
Safety Workshop.

*****************************************************
James A. Kaufman, President
The Laboratory Safety Workshop
192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760
508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 LabSafe@aol.com
Safety in Science Education

The Laboratory Safety Workshop is a national non-profit educational
organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and
important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory
Safety Guidelines, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, seminar
schedule, and membership infromation are available on request.

The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of the Laboratory
safety workshop.

*****************************************************************************
*
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:06:37 PST
From: damien luviano <luviano@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: toxins
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Hello everyone, do any of you employ the following toxins in your labs:
Alpha-bungarotoxin, tedrotoxin (TTX), Tetraethylammonium (TEA), curare,
botulinum toxin, cholera toxin, or any other neurotoxin. I am trying to
write up a safety-procedure/protocol regarding the handling and use of
these toxins in the lab. (i.e PPE, storing the toxins as a liquid,
antidotes, etc) If you have any procedures, suggestions, or
information regarding any of these toxins, please reply to me DIRECTLY
at
Luviano@hotmail.com

I am particularly interested in Alpha-bungarotoxin and Tedrotoxin.
I thank you in advace for your information

P.S. does any one know the mechanism of toxicity for arsenic acid?

Respectfullly,

Damien Luviano
Luviano@hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
==============================================================
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:44:01 -0500
From: Naomi Kelly <nkelly@CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
In-Reply-To: <003b01be0997$5ac93500$0100007f@BBURNS>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

From what I understand, the defined temperature range (60-95F) that existed
in the previous ANSI Z358 was omitted purposefully to allow some leeway in
determining what should be considered "tepid" for a particular site. The
new ANSI standard defines tepid as moderately warm or lukewarm, . If yours
is an OSHA state, I would recommend checking to see if they have written
enforcement "guidelines" for emergency drench equipment.

At 10:08 AM 11/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I've been following this discussion with great interest.
>
>Does anyone know if this is a requirement? If so, where is it documented?
>
>Our plant guys know nothing about it. The outside stations are particularly
>hard to control, since typically there is no hot water to mix. There is
>usually steam, but steam/water mixers are notorious for failing and giving
>straight steam. The thought of some poor operator needing an eye wash and
>getting a face full of steam is just too horrible to contemplate.
>
>Thanks for your help.
>
>"Everything is easy for the person who does not have to do it!"
>
>Robert L. Burns
>Group Leader, R&D
>RUETGERS Organics Corporation
>201 Struble Road
>State College, PA 16801
>phone 814-231-9214
>fax 814-238-1567
>email rburns@bigfoot.com
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
>To: LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu <LABSAFETY-L@siu.edu>
>Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 9:30
>Subject: Re: ANSI Z358.1-1998
>
>
>>We have installed mixing valves on units to supply tepid water. The trick
>was to go around and set all those valves. Some stations were still cold
>and some were hot. Luckily this was caught in our routine inspection and
>not when they were actually needed. Lack of communication between
>facilities people and safety folks rears its ugly head once again. Good
>luck, Janeen.
>>
>>*****************
>>Janeen Lapierre, CHO
>>College of Osteopathic Medicine
>>University of New England
>>11 Hills Beach Road
>>Biddeford, ME 04005
>>
>>E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
>>Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446
>>Opinions are mine and not those of UNE.
>>
>>>>> "Greene, Ben" <bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV> - 11/5/98 5:24 PM >>>
>>I recently compared the American National Standard for Emergency Eyewash
>>and Shower Equipment ANSI Z358.1-1998 revision to the 1990 revision.
>>For those of you using potable water as a flushing fluid for plumbed
>>units, what are you doing to ensure that the water is "tepid" as
>>specified by that standard? This could be a real problem in the colder
>>environments, for both indoor and outdoor units. Thanks,
>>
>>Ben Greene, Ph.D
>>AlliedSignal
>>Las Cruces, NM 88004
>>bgreene@wstf.nasa.gov
>>
>>
>
>
Naomi Kelly
Environmental Health and Safety
nkelly@clemson.edu
(864) 656 - 7554
Fax: (864) 656 - 7630
==============================================================
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:54:06 -0500
From: Bill Schultz <william_schultz@DETRICK.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: toxin PPE
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

To the person looking for information to set up a protocol and PPE for work
with toxins. I inadvertantly deleted your message before responding.

32 CFR Part 627.17 - Biological Defense Safety Program - Covers Department of
Defense requirements for working with toxins.

This document can be obtained on the Internet @
access.gpo/nara/cfr/cfr-retrieve.html.

Hope this helps. The document is used as a guide for any facility
participating in research for the government Biolgical Defense Program.

William-Schultz@ftdetrck-ccmail.army.mil
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 00:55:08 EST
From: Hal Grunenwald <HALN2SSS@AOL.COM>
Subject: help
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Could someone send me the address for removal from this list. I have changed
positions and am no longer connected with any NACHO functions. Yes I saved the
initial instructions but that was a crash and a reformat ago.
Thanks
Good luck to all
Hal Grunenwald
==============================================================
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:24:34 -0500
From: Wes Kolar <wkolar@PS.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: help
In-Reply-To: <4c45d315.364926bc@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Send the following command:

SIGNOFF LABSAFETY-L

to LISTSERV@SIU.EDU

Wes

At 12:55 AM 11/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Could someone send me the address for removal from this list. I have changed
>positions and am no longer connected with any NACHO functions. Yes I saved
the
>initial instructions but that was a crash and a reformat ago.
>Thanks
>Good luck to all
>Hal Grunenwald
>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:48:39 -0800
From: Nigel McCarter <n.mccarter@CLEAR.NET.NZ>
Subject: Picric Acid Chloral hydrate and other nasties
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Lab safety
Three questions from New Zealand.
1. Has anyone direct experience of Picric acid? It is explosive when
crystallised - it was used as detanator in torpedoes and other nasties. It
is also used in biological laboratories, being one of the ingredients of
Bouins fluid which is a fixative, and is also used to stain penguin and
albatross feathers (for real)
The acid in one storage bottles at a lab facility has crystalised around
the cap, that is -- the bottle is now explosive.
Just how explosive is crystalline picric acid does it go off with a gentle
pop, or a bloody big bang and blow your hands off. At the moment the
bottle is upside down in water gently soaking in a bucket of water.

2. Second nasty. Chloral Hydrate is used as a wasp poison. We have the
MSDS, again does anyone have direct experience of this poison, any antidote
or anecdotes welcome.

3. Third nasty. Biological samples are frequently stored in 60-70%
ethanol or 50% isopropyl. Has anyone a fire inflammability rating for
these dilutions. It affects how the samples are stored.

Its summer here, the sun is shining

Greetings everyone ....

Nigel

Nigel McCarter
Safety Management and Information Services Ltd
Box 23 019 Hamilton
Phone (64) 7 858 2429 Fax (64) 7 858 2689
Mobile 025 274 8560
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:54:15 -0500
From: Wes Kolar <wkolar@PS.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Picric Acid Chloral hydrate and other nasties
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981112134839.007d2420@pop.clear.net.nz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Nigel,

Picric acid has an explosive power slightly greater than that
of TNT, so it produces a bloody big bang. Rupture of a single crystal
is probably enough of a shock to set it off. The stuff is also heat
sensitive. Here in the States, dried picric is often taken out into a
field some where, placed in a deep pit, and detonated. Local bomb
squads are usually willing to perform the task.
Haven't worked with chloral hydrate. The reference that I have
says that for ingestion you should make the effected person drink
a slurry of water and activated charcoal.
Both EtOH and iPr have NFPA ratings of 3 for the undiluted
alcohols. Solutions that are 70% or less will probably have an NFPA
rating of 2.

Wes

to At 01:48 PM 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi Lab safety
>Three questions from New Zealand.
>1. Has anyone direct experience of Picric acid? It is explosive when
>crystallised - it was used as detanator in torpedoes and other nasties. It
>is also used in biological laboratories, being one of the ingredients of
>Bouins fluid which is a fixative, and is also used to stain penguin and
>albatross feathers (for real)
>The acid in one storage bottles at a lab facility has crystalised around
>the cap, that is -- the bottle is now explosive.
>Just how explosive is crystalline picric acid does it go off with a gentle
>pop, or a bloody big bang and blow your hands off. At the moment the
>bottle is upside down in water gently soaking in a bucket of water.
>
>2. Second nasty. Chloral Hydrate is used as a wasp poison. We have the
>MSDS, again does anyone have direct experience of this poison, any antidote
>or anecdotes welcome.
>
>3. Third nasty. Biological samples are frequently stored in 60-70%
>ethanol or 50% isopropyl. Has anyone a fire inflammability rating for
>these dilutions. It affects how the samples are stored.
>
>
>Its summer here, the sun is shining
>
>Greetings everyone ....
>
>Nigel
>
>Nigel McCarter
>Safety Management and Information Services Ltd
>Box 23 019 Hamilton
>Phone (64) 7 858 2429 Fax (64) 7 858 2689
>Mobile 025 274 8560
>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:49:47 -0500
From: Janeen LaPierre <JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Picric Acid Chloral hydrate and other nasties
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Howdy Nigel.

I have no personal experience with items 1 or 2 on your list but I can give you a little advice on item 3. We have an extensive preserved specimen collection here at the university. Rather than keep things in formalin or alcohol solutions, we use ethylene glycol. Just mix 1 to 5 with water. Alcohols tend to dry specimens out over time as well as evaporate quite fast. Note, ethylene glycol is not a fixative. Specimens must be fixed in formalin prior to storage in ethylene glycol.

Here in Maine, we are in late fall and expecting snow flurries this week end.
For what its worth, Janeen.

*****************
Janeen Lapierre, CHO
College of Osteopathic Medicine
University of New England
11 Hills Beach Road
Biddeford, ME 04005

E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU
Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446
Opinions are mine and not those of UNE.

>>> Nigel McCarter <n.mccarter@CLEAR.NET.NZ> - 11/12/98 4:48 PM >>>
Hi Lab safety
Three questions from New Zealand.
1. Has anyone direct experience of Picric acid? It is explosive when
crystallised - it was used as detanator in torpedoes and other nasties. It
is also used in biological laboratories, being one of the ingredients of
Bouins fluid which is a fixative, and is also used to stain penguin and
albatross feathers (for real)
The acid in one storage bottles at a lab facility has crystalised around
the cap, that is -- the bottle is now explosive.
Just how explosive is crystalline picric acid does it go off with a gentle
pop, or a bloody big bang and blow your hands off. At the moment the
bottle is upside down in water gently soaking in a bucket of water.

2. Second nasty. Chloral Hydrate is used as a wasp poison. We have the
MSDS, again does anyone have direct experience of this poison, any antidote
or anecdotes welcome.

3. Third nasty. Biological samples are frequently stored in 60-70%
ethanol or 50% isopropyl. Has anyone a fire inflammability rating for
these dilutions. It affects how the samples are stored.

Its summer here, the sun is shining

Greetings everyone ....

Nigel

Nigel McCarter
Safety Management and Information Services Ltd
Box 23 019 Hamilton
Phone (64) 7 858 2429 Fax (64) 7 858 2689
Mobile 025 274 8560
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:15:09 -0500
From: Dave Gelpke <dgelpke@CANBERRA.COM>
Subject: Lab Safety Seminar
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I remember reading about a lab safety seminar/workshop being held at
Trinity College in Hartford CT during the month of January. Is that true
and who would be a contact for that?
Thanks
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:09:15 -0500
From: "Norman, Randy" <RNorman@BIORELIANCE.COM>
Subject: Re: Picric Acid Chloral hydrate and other nasties
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Re; Item #1 Wes has it right. Very scary stuff, but you've done right so
far. Some folks have done this (immersion in water for a few days then
carefully open under water. But I would call either the Fire Marshall's
office (for the bomb squad) or your hazardous waste contractor for advice
and/or assistance.

Item 2: Chloral Hydrate is the infamous "Mickey Finn" as in "slip someone a
Mickey" from the old movies. In the States it's a "controlled substance"
like many other drugs with abuse potential. It's often used to sedate
children. My daughter was knocked out with it at 18 months so they could do
a CAT scan. Too much can certainly kill. I believe we call it a "hypnotic"
here in the states.

Item 3:
60% Ethyl alcohol has a flash point of about 72 F (22 C)
70% Ethyl alcohol's is about 70 F (21 C)

You'd have to check local regulations to see what they class that as.

For 70% Isopropyl alcohol I don't have a flash point, but the pure
Isopropyl flashes at 53 F (12 C). That's approx. 3 F (2 C) below that of
pure Ethyl alcohol, so I'd expect that at 70% its flash point would be
comparable for that described above for 70% Ethyl, or maybe a little bit
lower.

I got the flashpoint info. from NFPA 325M 1977 (yes really old) "Fire Hazard
Properties of Flammable Liquids, Gases, Volatile Solids"

Hope that helps!

Randy Norman
Safety Specialist Sr.
BioReliance Corporation
Rockville, MD 20850
Rnorman@bioreliance.com <mailto:Rnorman@bioreliance.com>

"Success is a journey, not a destination" - Ben Sweetland

to At 01:48 PM 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi Lab safety
>Three questions from New Zealand.
>1. Has anyone direct experience of Picric acid? It is explosive
when
>crystallised - it was used as detanator in torpedoes and other
nasties. It
>is also used in biological laboratories, being one of the
ingredients of
>Bouins fluid which is a fixative, and is also used to stain penguin
and
>albatross feathers (for real)
>The acid in one storage bottles at a lab facility has crystalised
around
>the cap, that is -- the bottle is now explosive.
>Just how explosive is crystalline picric acid does it go off with a
gentle
>pop, or a bloody big bang and blow your hands off. At the moment
the
>bottle is upside down in water gently soaking in a bucket of water.
>
>2. Second nasty. Chloral Hydrate is used as a wasp poison. We
have the
>MSDS, again does anyone have direct experience of this poison, any
antidote
>or anecdotes welcome.
>
>3. Third nasty. Biological samples are frequently stored in
60-70%
>ethanol or 50% isopropyl. Has anyone a fire inflammability rating
for
>these dilutions. It affects how the samples are stored.
>
>
>Its summer here, the sun is shining
>
>Greetings everyone ....
>
>Nigel
>
>Nigel McCarter
>Safety Management and Information Services Ltd
>Box 23 019 Hamilton
>Phone (64) 7 858 2429 Fax (64) 7 858 2689
>Mobile 025 274 8560
>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:59:06 -0800
From: Ray Campbell <ray.campbell@SPP.VARIAN.COM>
Subject: Re: Picric Acid Chloral hydrate and other nasties
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981112134839.007d2420@pop.clear.net.nz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have had experience with Picric Acid in crystalline form. It will go off
with a bloody big bang and blow your hand off. It is very shock sensitive
in this state. I recommend that you call the bomb squad. I saw a gallon
blown up by my local bomb squad years ago. It is not a pop!!!

Ray Campbell REA CCHO
310-257-1080

PS It is always summer here in southern cal and the sun is shining

At 01:48 PM 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi Lab safety
>Three questions from New Zealand.
>1. Has anyone direct experience of Picric acid? It is explosive when
>crystallised - it was used as detanator in torpedoes and other nasties. It
>is also used in biological laboratories, being one of the ingredients of
>Bouins fluid which is a fixative, and is also used to stain penguin and
>albatross feathers (for real)
>The acid in one storage bottles at a lab facility has crystalised around
>the cap, that is -- the bottle is now explosive.
>Just how explosive is crystalline picric acid does it go off with a gentle
>pop, or a bloody big bang and blow your hands off. At the moment the
>bottle is upside down in water gently soaking in a bucket of water.
>
>2. Second nasty. Chloral Hydrate is used as a wasp poison. We have the
>MSDS, again does anyone have direct experience of this poison, any antidote
>or anecdotes welcome.
>
>3. Third nasty. Biological samples are frequently stored in 60-70%
>ethanol or 50% isopropyl. Has anyone a fire inflammability rating for
>these dilutions. It affects how the samples are stored.
>
>
>Its summer here, the sun is shining
>
>Greetings everyone ....
>
>Nigel
>
>Nigel McCarter
>Safety Management and Information Services Ltd
>Box 23 019 Hamilton
>Phone (64) 7 858 2429 Fax (64) 7 858 2689
>Mobile 025 274 8560
>
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:55:48 -0500
From: Dewey Williams <williams@EMAIL.UNCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Picric Acid Chloral hydrate and other nasties
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981112134839.007d2420@pop.clear.net.nz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi Lab safety
>Three questions from New Zealand.
>1. Has anyone direct experience of Picric acid? It is explosive when
>crystallised - it was used as detanator in torpedoes and other nasties. It
>is also used in biological laboratories, being one of the ingredients of
>Bouins fluid which is a fixative, and is also used to stain penguin and
>albatross feathers (for real)
>The acid in one storage bottles at a lab facility has crystalised around
>the cap, that is -- the bottle is now explosive.
>Just how explosive is crystalline picric acid does it go off with a gentle
>pop, or a bloody big bang and blow your hands off. At the moment the
>bottle is upside down in water gently soaking in a bucket of water.
>

The key to explosive picric acid is that it must be dry...very dry.

We store all our picric acid in water. I check the bottles about twice a
year to make certain they are still wet. I have found only one bottle that
I thought was sufficently dry to be a problem. The bomb squad was happy to
retrieve it as a training session. From my report, the material did not
explode when the the bomb squad shocked it.
Dewey Williams - Lab Manager
mailto:williams@email.uncc.edu
UNC-Charlotte Chemistry Dept. http://www.chem.uncc.edu
"These are my ideas and no one else will claim them."
"If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate"
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:25:30 -0500
From: Dave Gelpke <dgelpke@CANBERRA.COM>
Subject: Lab Safety Seminar
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Thanks to all for the speedy response regarding the lab safety
seminar/workshop being held at Trinity College in Hartford.
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:28:39 +0000
Comments: Authenticated sender is <hermanc@mail.cameron.edu>
From: Herman curtis <hermanc@CAMERON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Picric Acid Chloral hydrate and other nasties
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Ray Campbell wrote in reference to picric acid:

> It is very shock sensitive in this state.

Not justin California; in the other 49 states as well.
Herman Curtis
Department of Physical Science
Cameron University
2800 W Gore Blvd
Lawton, OK 73505
hermanc@cameron.edu (580)591-8007 ,(580)581-2323
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:31:48 -0600
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chloral hydrate
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981112134839.007d2420@pop.clear.net.nz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

We had a fairly extensive discussion on picric acid late last March; it
should be in the archives.

Chloral hydrate is indeed used as a pedi sedative. My wife is a pedi ICU
nurse and she uses it on aregular basis (on her patients, that is),
especially before they want the kiddies to be out for an extended period.
Some EMS providers use it in the field, but it's generally an in-hopital
med. It's been used (or at least kept) in our labs at UT; most common
current use is as part of a sample prep process (it's used in a clearing
agent). For what it's worth, chloral hydrate is a Schedule IV DEA
controlled substance (potential for abuse but not particularly
habit-forming). I'm not sure about this, but I think it has been used in
some pesticide manufacturing - either that or it was a by-product of same.

Typical therapeutic dose is 250-500 mg/kg for kids, more for adults;
estimated lethal dose (oral) for humans is 5-10 g. It's both a contact
irritant (inhaled, ingested, absorbed) and (in case you hadn't guessed) is
a CNS depressant. No specfic antidote - try to adsorb with activated
charcoal and treat symptoms (especially respiratory suppression).

I have more info if anyone needs it, but most of it is for clinical use.

JNR

Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu

"The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise
specified."
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:11:07 -0800
From: Neal Langerman <chemsaf@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: New Web Page Appearance
Comments: To: hs-canada@ccohs.ca, SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dear Friends -

Advanced Chemical Safety has updated its Web Page with a new crisp look and
new links. Please stop by and visit. We will be publishing our 1999
Program schedule shortly and will announce that so you can schedule programs
which meet your needs.

Neal
*************************************************************
NEAL LANGERMAN chemsaf@ix.netcom.com
ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY
8909 Complex Drive
San Diego CA 92123-1418

619 874 5577 (phone) 619 874 8239 (FAX)
619 990 4908 (cellular)

visit our homepage: http://www.chemical-safety.com

*************************************************************
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:04:32 -0600
From: Michael Garoutte <Garoutte-M@MAIL.MSSC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chloral hydrate
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

--
Michael Garoutte, Ph.D. garoutte-m@mail.mssc.edu
Asst. Prof. of Chemistry, Missouri Southern State College
3950 East Newman Road, Joplin, MO 64801-1595
Phone: 417-625-9579 Fax: 417-625-3169
http://www.mssc.edu/physci/chemistry

>>> Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU> 11/12/98 12:31PM >>>
Typical therapeutic dose is 250-500 mg/kg for kids, more for adults;
estimated lethal dose (oral) for humans is 5-10 g.

Am I reading this correctly? This would mean for a 40kg child the dose would be:

(500 mg/kg)(40 kg)=20000 mg = 20 g! That seems like a tough pill to swallow (pun intended).
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:33:21 -0600
From: Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chloral hydrate
In-Reply-To: <s64b1646.055@mail.mssc.edu>
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Correct! Serves me right for trying to abbreviate the information - I
mixed units. A typical therpeutic dose is generally 25-50 mg/kg, depending
on route and purpose, with total doses in the 200-500 mg range; 500 mg is
the max dose for most uses (as well as the typical adult dose).

I guess the 20 g dose is for someone who REALLY needs sedation...

Thanks for reading and catching it.

JNR

>--
>Michael Garoutte, Ph.D. garoutte-m@mail.mssc.edu
>Asst. Prof. of Chemistry, Missouri Southern State College
>3950 East Newman Road, Joplin, MO 64801-1595
>Phone: 417-625-9579 Fax: 417-625-3169
>http://www.mssc.edu/physci/chemistry
>
>>>> Jeff Rubin <jrubin@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU> 11/12/98 12:31PM >>>
>Typical therapeutic dose is 250-500 mg/kg for kids, more for adults;
>estimated lethal dose (oral) for humans is 5-10 g.
>
>Am I reading this correctly? This would mean for a 40kg child the dose
>would be:
>
>(500 mg/kg)(40 kg)=20000 mg = 20 g! That seems like a tough pill to
>swallow (pun intended).

Jeff Rubin, Asst. Dean for EHS
College of Natural Sciences G2500
W.C. Hogg Building
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712-1199
(512) 471-6176 (O)
(512) 471-4998 (F)
jrubin@mail.utexas.edu

"The opinions of Dr. Rubin are not meant to offend anyone unless otherwise
specified."
==============================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:58:53 EST
From: Labsafe@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Lab Safety Seminar
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This is the right place to find out about it. LSI will offer one of its one-
day lab safety seminars at the conference. The final day has not been set
yet. Stayed tuned. ... jim
==============================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:07:39 -0500
From: Mary Ann Solstad <msolstad@MEDIAONE.NET>
Subject: Re: Chloral hydrate
In-Reply-To: <v0311070fb2711f75ab48@[128.83.215.83]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This discussion on chloral hydrate, which someone pointed out was the
active ingredient in Mickey Finns (ref. old movies and detective stories),
reminded me of some 40 yrs ago and my broken leg. It had been royally
smashed skiing. No way could I rest for the pain, and later the itching
under the cast. Dr. Rx-ed chloral hydrate. No way could I disguise the
awful taste of that stuff, and we tried some innovative liquids, including
V-8. When I did get it down, it didn't help me sleep anyhow. Never
figured out how they could slip someone a Mickey. Just remembering.

Mary Ann

At 05:33 PM 11/12/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Correct! Serves me right for trying to abbreviate the information - I
>mixed units. A typical therpeutic dose is generally 25-50 mg/kg, depending
>on route and purpose, with total doses in the 200-500 mg range; 500 mg is
>the max dose for most uses (as well as the typical adult dose).
>
>I guess the 20 g dose is for someone who REALLY needs sedation...
>

>>Michael Garoutte, Ph.D. garoutte-m@mail.mssc.edu
>>Asst. Prof. of Chemistry, Missouri Southern State College
>>3950 East Newman Road, Joplin, MO 64801-1595
>>Phone: 417-625-9579 Fax: 417-625-3169
>>http://www.mssc.edu/physci/chemistry