========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:59:24 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Naomi Kelly Subject: Acid use in teaching labs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We have biology labs that use concentrated nitric acid to show reaction with egg yolks. They are presently conducting this experiment without the use of hoods. The students do this experiment themselves using about 2-3 ml of nitric/experiment. This experiment is performed about 270 times over the course of a week. I have outlined the PPE requirements. But they do not have a hoods in these labs. Thoughts on ventilation requirements would be appreciated. Naomi Kelly Environmental Health and Safety Officer Clemson University 261 P&AS Building Clemson, SC 29634-5740 (864)656-7554 Fax (864)656-7630 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:15:27 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jim Jenkins Subject: Re: Re(2): Explosion at Bakersfield High School Comments: To: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The National Science Teachers' Association and the ACS have recommended guidelines for lab sizes based on occupancy. They recommend a MAX of 24 students in a lab class. Also, they have recommendations concerning square foot area per student in lab and combination lab/classroom settings. Although these guidelines are directed at high school and middle school science labs, I'm sure that they could be utilized for university labs with some mimor modifications. I'm surprised that California, with all of its other strict regulations, doesn't appear to address this issue. I will not permit more than 24 students in any of my chemistry classes. In fact, this school year, I had to have our counselor make schedule adjustments on two students to get one of my classes down to 24. I just said that we would not do any labs until that happened and he did what I asked. Jim Jenkins Chairman, Science Department John F. Hodge High School St. James, MO 65559 jjenkins@stjames.k12.mo.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 06:48:21 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Ray Campbell Subject: Re: Re(2): Explosion at Bakersfield High School In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Actually, seeing that this happened in California, I am surprised that the class was less than forty students. The schools are very overcrowded. Have you read the rankings for the schools nationwide? We rank about 45th, I believe. At 08:15 AM 9/1/99 -0500, you wrote: >The National Science Teachers' Association and the ACS have recommended >guidelines for lab sizes based on occupancy. They recommend a MAX of 24 >students in a lab class. Also, they have recommendations concerning square >foot area per student in lab and combination lab/classroom settings. >Although these guidelines are directed at high school and middle school >science labs, I'm sure that they could be utilized for university labs with >some mimor modifications. I'm surprised that California, with all of its >other strict regulations, doesn't appear to address this issue. > >I will not permit more than 24 students in any of my chemistry classes. In >fact, this school year, I had to have our counselor make schedule >adjustments on two students to get one of my classes down to 24. I just >said that we would not do any labs until that happened and he did what I asked. > >Jim Jenkins >Chairman, Science Department >John F. Hodge High School >St. James, MO 65559 >jjenkins@stjames.k12.mo.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:57:27 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Greene, Ben" Subject: Re: Acid use in teaching labs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Naomi - Nitric acid (and nitric oxide that is typically a product) should never be allowed to escape appropriate exhaust ventilation. The 270 times 2-3 mL per week is no small amount, as you have recognized. Although I don't know the details of the experiment, is it possible to substitute nitric with of a non-volatile acid, such as sulfuric? Perhaps a non-volatile base, such as aqueous NaOH, might also get the point of the demonstration across without having to add any additional engineering controls. Ben Greene AlliedSignal ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:08:35 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Subject: Re(2): Re(3): Explosion at Bakersfield High School Comments: To: trobertson@csubak.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit article below is from bakersfield.com 9-1-99, 8:00 am You will find a photo of the classroom at the website. This morning's printed paper also had a photo of a student at the hospital waiting for stitches, an explanation of the experiment with diagrams, and a diagram of the classroom showing location of desks, students, demo table, etc. Teresa R. Robertson CSUB Explosion rocks science class Filed: August 31, 1999 By AMANDA GAUTHIER and KERRY CAVANAUGH Californian staff writers e-mail: agauthier@bakersfield.com e-mail: kcavanaugh@bakersfield.com Tuesday was just the second day of class at East Bakersfield High when teacher John McCormick began his science experiment, which had always been exciting but safe. Instead, a 5-gallon glass water cooler bottle shattered, sending shards of glass flying across the room and 22 students to local emergency rooms. No one suffered major injuries in the 8:25 a.m. explosion but it shook up students, parents and school officials on campus. The Bakersfield Police, Kern County Fire and Kern County Sheriff's departments all responded within minutes. Investigators from the Kern High School District, the Sheriff's Department Bomb Squad and District Attorney's Office were initially on scene in case there had been some criminal element to the accident. Officials quickly determined that the explosion was simply an unfortunate accident. Now the standard accident investigation is being handled by the Kern County Fire Department and the Kern High School District. "This was an approved demonstration experiment," East High principal John Gibson said. "What went wrong nobody can tell at this point." Student Joseph Krauter was sitting at the back of the classroom. The force of the explosion blew his hair back and pushed him up against the back wall. "And people ask me why I don't like chemistry," Krauter said later that morning as he waited for a ride back to school from San Joaquin Community Hospital. Krauter, 16, was retaking the chemistry course. He knew how the experiment was supposed to work. "The bottle was not supposed to burst at all," he said. "It's just a school experiment gone bad. Could be a Fox special," said junior Jesse Martinez, 16. Igniting methanol is a common lab demonstration, said Roy LaFever, a professor of chemistry at Cal State Bakersfield. "It's used in a variety of experiments because it burns clean and, under normal circumstances, is quite controllable," LaFever said. Many high schools use methanol in their labs, said Ralph Huey, director of environmental services for the Bakersfield Fire Department. The problem with methanol, a volatile liquid, is that it gives off vapors at a low temperature, around 50 degrees, he said. It has a "wide flammability range" which means that there doesn't have to be a thick concentration of vapors for a fire to ignite. The experiment could have gone wrong because there was too much vapor in the glass bottle, which could cause a more violent reaction than expected, Huey said. The Tuesday morning lesson for 33 students at East High was supposed to be about observation and inference, a demonstration the 10-year veteran teacher had performed for years. A few milliliters of methanol, also known as wood alcohol, sat in the bottom of the glass bottle. McCormick turned the lights off, lit a match and lifted the lid off the bottle. The students heard a crack before a flame shot out of the top and the bottle exploded — shooting bits of glass around the room. Students said McCormick rushed out of the room when he saw blood coming from his face, and the students followed, heading to the nurse's office in the basement. Glass flew in every direction, breaking a plastic ceiling light cover, hitting the back wall cabinets and piercing the vinyl drapes. Blood spots spread across the floor and desks. Junior Neil Kitchen, 16, was sitting in the front of the classroom near the door during the demonstration. After the explosion, he felt a piece of glass hit the side of his face. He touched his face, saw blood and immediately ran to the nurse's office. The accident was just a freak occurrence, Kitchen said from an emergency room bed at Kern Medical Center. He and his mother, Barbara Kitchen , were waiting for him to get the gash in his cheek stitched up. "(McCormick) is a good teacher. This experiment is done every year," Neil Kitchen said. Krauter and Martinez sat with Elizabeth Guzman, also a junior, in the emergency waiting room. Other students had already been released. The three had minor cuts from shattered glass. Martinez's stomach also was bothering him. Humor helped distract from the visions of a classroom strewn with glass and blood, and the knowledge that it could have been much worse. "People may be joking about it to let it all out, but it was really scary in there," Guzman said. "I'm kind of scared to do chemistry now." Mostly they were worried about their teacher, and wondering how the explosion had happened. "He (McCormick) was shook up. That thing blew up right in his face," Krauter added. "I just hope he can still teach." Guzman and Martinez echoed the sentiment. "I hope he doesn't quit or anything." Martinez said. McCormick went home after he was treated and released from Kern Medical Center for minor cuts. He was in shock from the experiment and concerned about his students, Gibson said. "It's kind of a traumatic experience for a teacher to go through," he said. Mary Martinez, 39, expressed concern for McCormick when she came to pick up her son, Erik Martinez, from San Joaquin Hospital. Erik, 16, was given a tetanus shot because of a cut on his arm, and said his ear hurt. While Erik wasn't seriously injured, Mary Martinez was concerned about the safety of the science lab experiments. She said she was upset that McCormick was wearing protective goggles, gloves and earplugs while the students were not. "If he (Erik) had lost his eyesight over this ..." she said, and stopped. "An accident isn't really an accident. It's someone else's mistake." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 20:43:06 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: Re(2): Re(2): Explosion at Bakersfield High School In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:04 PM 8/31/99 -0700, you wrote: >>From bakersfield.com >5 pm, 8-31-99 > > > Lab explosion at East High > School sends 23 to hospital Teresa: Thanks for posting this information. Very curious to know what went wrong. I'm glad your kids weren't at this school but it's still a scary thing so close to home. Regards, Deb. Debbie M. Decker, Health and Safety Specialist Environmental Health and Safety University of California, Davis 1 Shields Ave. Davis, CA 95616 (530)754-7964 (530)752-1493 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:23:59 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Pinizzotto Subject: Re: Re(3): Explosion at Bakersfield High School Comments: cc: wmichaelchuck@erols.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="openmail-part-0757a8eb-00000001" --openmail-part-0757a8eb-00000001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Re:" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Re:" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI NACHO's, I've been following the postings on the Bakersfield explosion and been forwarding everything to my close friend who is a seasoned high school chemistry in South Jersey. Here's his return e-mail to me. I'm puzzled that there are actually water cooler bottles made of glass. Is this a misconception by the media? Could the bottle actually be a media preparation bottle. I have seen these and used these before. One thing my friend also forgot to mention was that students are never allowed in his class without safety goggles. If they're caught not wearing them, they must sing "the goggles song" ( I'll save that for another time )in front of the whole class. Nick Pinizzotto Environmental Health Officer Dept. Environmental Health & Safety Thomas Jefferson University nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu 215-503-5853 --openmail-part-0757a8eb-00000001 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:08:28 -0400 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Subject: Re: Re(3): Explosion at Bakersfield High School MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wmichaelchuck/internet////////RFC-822/wmichaelchuck#a#erols#f#com@hpmail1 From: wmichaelchuck@erols.com TO: Nick.Pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu Content-Type: multipart/Mixed; boundary="openmail-part-0757a8eb-00000002" --openmail-part-0757a8eb-00000002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Re:" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick Pinizzotto wrote: > > Subject: Re(3): Explosion at Bakersfield High School > From: Teresa_Robertson@FIRSTCLASS1.CSUBAK.EDU > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > > 12:30 pm news broadcast... > > The explosion was accidental and occurred in a chemistry class. The > experiment involved methanol vapor. The Fire Battalion Chief said 2 ml of > methanol was placed in a "Sparkletts-water-bottle-sized container". > > Students received minor cuts to arms, legs, and faces. > > Teresa Robertson > CSUB > I'm wondering...what is a minor cut, and what size the container was... Nick, This is one of my favorite demos- I have been doing it safely for i2 years ;only ,I use a plastic five gallon water bottle and always use a safety shield. Wayne --openmail-part-0757a8eb-00000002-- --openmail-part-0757a8eb-00000001-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:33:52 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Harry Elston Subject: Goggles Song In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >One thing my friend also forgot to mention was that students are never allowed >in his class without safety goggles. If they're caught not wearing them, they >must sing "the goggles song" ( I'll save that for another time )in front of >the whole class. > > Nick Pinizzotto Nick...we MUST have the goggles song! Harry Elston Harry J. Elston, Ph.D. Editor, Chemical Health and Safety and Chemical Hygiene Officer Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety Opinions are my own, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah "As a matter of fact, I do know 10 things that are carved in stone." -God ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:39:42 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Pinizzotto Subject: Goggles Song Comments: To: helston@FGI.NET In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990901113317.00925220@mail.fgi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harry, I'll work on it. Also, I WILL return your phone call regarding LS&EM. Sorry for the delay. Nick Pinizzotto Environmental Health Officer Dept. Environmental Health & Safety Thomas Jefferson University nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu 215-503-5853 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:44:14 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Greene, Ben" Subject: Re: Re(3): Explosion at Bakersfield High School MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Nick - I (or maybe the Sparkletts bottle that blew) must be old; Sparketts bottles used to be made of glass, and were rather stout. There didn't appear to be much of it left to do a failure analysis. Out of curiousity, when Wayne uses a safety shield, on which side of the bottle is it placed (toward the instructor or toward the class)? I witnessed a similar (UEL, LEL) demonstration at the OSHA Training Institute a couple years ago, except a 5 gallon plastic water bottle was used. The demonstration was performed in an open classroom that positively reeked of burned plastics/plasticizers after the burn. Ironically, it was an industrial hygiene class in which air contaminants and respiratory protection were also on the agenda. Ben Greene AlliedSignal ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:54:11 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Pinizzotto Subject: Re: Re(3): Explosion at Bakersfield High School Comments: To: bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV In-Reply-To: <45C82258A1B2D111892500805FCC9B0D01D7A610@nt05.wstf.nasa.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ben, I believe all of Wayne's demo's employ the shield between the students and the experiment. Nick Pinizzotto Environmental Health Officer Dept. Environmental Health & Safety Thomas Jefferson University nick.pinizzotto@mail.tju.edu 215-503-5853 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:58:17 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Mudd, Lisa E'town Ind Schools" Subject: Re: Goggles Song Is this the same goggles song: Goggles, you'll love your goggles. They will keep your eyes from (STOMP) burning out. So wear your goggles, upon your eeyyeeballs. If you don't, you must stay out! Sung to the tune of the song we all learned as kids -- "Comet, it makes you ...". > ---------- > From: Harry Elston[SMTP:helston@FGI.NET] > Reply To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 12:33 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Goggles Song > > >One thing my friend also forgot to mention was that students are never > allowed > >in his class without safety goggles. If they're caught not wearing them, > they > >must sing "the goggles song" ( I'll save that for another time )in front > of > >the whole class. > > > > Nick Pinizzotto > > Nick...we MUST have the goggles song! > > Harry Elston > > > Harry J. Elston, Ph.D. > Editor, Chemical Health and Safety > and Chemical Hygiene Officer > Illinois Department of Nuclear Safety > Opinions are my own, not my employer's, blah, blah, blah > > "As a matter of fact, I do know 10 things that are carved > in stone." > -God > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:08:17 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Martin Besant Subject: Re: Methanol Demo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hope no one believes the explosion was an accident caused by static elec. The only reason to put 2 ml of methanol in a 1 liter container is to demonstrate an explosion The accident was the wrong container choice. This demo is best done in PETE or HDPE. I prefer a 64 oz juice jug with a large cork. And evryone has goggles IMHO I am very skeptical of the majority of injuries. I think too many have been trained that if some one is hurt, we have all been injured. And that means entitled to compensation. For what its worth Marty Besant West Seneca East Sr HS A suburb of Buffalo, NY ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:57:46 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Tayman, Tammy" Subject: Re: Re(3): Explosion at Bakersfield High School MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I also remember the glass 5 gal water cooler bottles. In fact, my brother has one he uses to collect pocket change. (It takes a while to fill...) They were *very* heavy. However, one must wonder about the stess damage from usage, both for water and demos, and bumping the table edge, etc. It states in the article that "students heard a crack before...". This lends credibility to the "stress failure" theory. Tammy Tayman > -----Original Message----- > From: Greene, Ben [mailto:bgreene@SMTP3.WSTF.NASA.GOV] > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 12:44 PM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Re: Re(3): Explosion at Bakersfield High School > > > Nick - I (or maybe the Sparkletts bottle that blew) > must be old; > Sparketts bottles used to be made of glass, and were rather > stout. There > didn't appear to be much of it left to do a failure analysis. Out of > curiousity, when Wayne uses a safety shield, on which side of > the bottle is > it placed (toward the instructor or toward the class)? I witnessed a > similar (UEL, LEL) demonstration at the OSHA Training > Institute a couple > years ago, except a 5 gallon plastic water bottle was used. The > demonstration was performed in an open classroom that > positively reeked of > burned plastics/plasticizers after the burn. Ironically, it was an > industrial hygiene class in which air contaminants and respiratory > protection were also on the agenda. > > Ben Greene > AlliedSignal > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:08:50 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Subject: Re(2): Methanol Demo Comments: To: MBesant@AOL.COM Comments: cc: trobertson@csubak.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MBesant@AOL.COM writes: >Hope no one believes the explosion was an accident caused by static elec. >The >only reason to put 2 ml of methanol in a 1 liter container is to >demonstrate >an explosion As always seems to occur, some fallacies get out before the facts are straight. The news today relays the involvement of a lighted wooden match. > >And evryone has goggles It is my impression at this time, that goggles were not in use. > >IMHO I am very skeptical of the majority of injuries. 33 students in the room, 22 injured. I saw television footage of the amount of glass shards sprayed across the room. There was glass throughout the room, glass stuck in the ceiling and glass stuck in the draperies. One student's eye was bandaged by the hospital to keep it immobile due to suspicion of glass in the eye. Two other students reported eye irritation. I think I am surprised there were only 22 students injured. They were fortunate, the hospital is right across the street from the high school. The television footage also shared with us, comments by a student that are a PR nightmare. >I think too many have >been trained that if some one is hurt, we have all been injured. We also have been trained to get all potential injuries adequately evaluated, lest we give more reason for victims to seek compensation. > Marty, you say you use a cork when you do this? Is this the same demo referred to as The Methanol Cannon, that injured high school students at a Valencia, CA area high school a couple years ago? Teresa Robertson CSUB ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:48:44 +1200 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Tony Haggerty Subject: Re: Re(3): Explosion at Bakersfield High School MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well made point Jim. On the nefarious side of life many arsonists fail in their mission because they think more is better and get a too rich mixture which burns too slowly or consumes the available Oxygen and self extinguishes. On the other side there are those who get it "right" and they can usually be picked up at the scene in a very groggy condition. Hash Oil labs (which generally don't have Safety Officers!!) boil iso Propanol on kitchen elements and frequently blow out windows and themselves. In anywhere but a laboratory the use of a flame or any other source of ignition, within about 8 metres (25 feet) of a low flash point liquid such as Methanol is illegal. Tony Haggerty NZFS New Zealand "Trust us, we know what we're doing!!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:02:08 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Job Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings NACHO-ites, Yesterday was my last day at UT. Although I'm the first and last Asst. Dean for EHS, the College of Natural Sciences will be hiring a full-time "safety person." Nothing has been posted yet but I advise those who are interested to keep an eye on UT's employment page, http://www.utexas.edu/employment/. You'll have to fill out an electronic form to access information, and all applications are electronic. PLEASE do not e-mail resumes to anyone (especially me). Once the position is posted I'll be happy to chat with prospective applicants. Please keep in mind that, as I'm no longer a UT employee (although I do still have a UT e-mail address), my opinions are both plentiful and mine alone. This could be an interesting position. I think UT still has a many challenges that the executives haven't addressed, but the safety infrastructure here is much better than it was when I arrived in 8/97. We now have a real EH&S Director, a brand new but very experienced Fire Marshal, a new Chief of Police, and more upper-level determination to face some problems. The position will be within the College of Natural Sciences but will work very closely with our EH&S Dept. It will NOT be an enforcement position, but there will be people to deal with enforcement (what a concept). I don't know exactly what the requirements will be, but here's a rough idea: - Degreed safety professional - MA/MS preferred plus several years experience (more with a BA/BA) - Possessing or eligible to test for major certification (e.g., CSP, CIH, CBSP, CCHO) - Research lab experience (as tech, PI, grad student) - Work experience at an academic institution (i.e., someone who has worked only in industry, regardless of research experience, will probably not be eligible) Again, this is my understanding of what will appear, but this is not authoritative nor am I part of the decision-making process at this point. Time to "lurk" for a little while... Onward, JNR ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:50:22 -0500 Reply-To: Fawn LeMay Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Fawn LeMay Subject: New Member & Chem Storage Temps Quest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0093_01BEF4A2.76CA47C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0093_01BEF4A2.76CA47C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! I'm new to this list, and I think the list members will be able to = help me a great deal. I'm in my second year of a second career teaching = high school science. I've fallen into the "safety guru" position for my = small department and am trying to fix what I see as some major science = safety problems/issues in our school. Many of my questions (and I could = probably provide 50 right now) will deal with chemical storage (my = background is in physics and meteorology, not chemistry). For now I'll = just start with one concern ... I need information on appropriate room temperature ranges and humidity = levels for chemical storage rooms. A reference I have just states = 55-80F and dry (which I interpret as less than 30% humidity). My high = school is having problems with its cooling system, and I'm getting very = concerned about damage to and hazards from the chemicals we have stored, = and no I don't yet have an MSDS on each chemical we have stored. Fawn R. LeMay=20 flemay@esu3.esu3.k12.ne.us Science Teacher Plattsmouth High School Plattsmouth, NE 68048 ------=_NextPart_000_0093_01BEF4A2.76CA47C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi!  I'm new to = this list,=20 and I think the list members will be able to help me a great deal.  = I'm in=20 my second year of a second career teaching high school science.  = I've=20 fallen into the "safety guru" position for my small department = and am=20 trying to fix what I see as some major science safety problems/issues in = our=20 school.  Many of my questions (and I could probably provide 50 = right now)=20 will deal with chemical storage (my background is in physics and = meteorology,=20 not chemistry).  For now I'll just start with one concern = ...
 
I need information = on=20 appropriate room temperature ranges and humidity levels for chemical = storage=20 rooms.  A reference I have just states 55-80F and dry (which I = interpret as=20 less than 30% humidity).  My high school is having problems with = its=20 cooling system, and I'm getting very concerned about damage to and = hazards from=20 the chemicals we have stored, and no I don't yet have an MSDS on each = chemical=20 we have stored.
 
Fawn R. LeMay
flemay@esu3.esu3.k12.ne.us=
Science=20 Teacher
Plattsmouth High School
Plattsmouth, NE=20 68048
------=_NextPart_000_0093_01BEF4A2.76CA47C0-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:38:51 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Teresa Robertson Subject: Liability and Explosion at Bakersfield High School Comments: cc: trobertson@csubak.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Another article from bakersfield.com 9-1-1999 but first, a comment... My son took chemistry last year at a different high school in this same district. He told me the students were required to wear goggles at all times during lab work. I responded favorably. He said, but Mom, we even had to wear them when measuring the temperature of water with ice melting in it. I said, that was not too extreme, when using glass and a hot plate. He said, no Mom, we weren't using hot plates, and we were using styrofoam cups. I said, really? He said, well yes, but the teacher said he wanted us to be in the habit of using goggles, and keeping them on, because the hazards would increase for future labs. Teresa R. Robertson CSUB Cost of treatment will be covered by KHSD insurance Filed: August 31, 1999 By CHRISTINE L. PETERSON Californian staff writer e-mail: cpeterson@bakersfield.com The Kern High School District, through its insurance carrier, will cover the cost of treatment and transportation for students injured by an explosion in a science classroom Tuesday, a district administrator said. "We are concerned first and foremost about the safety and health of our students and teachers," said Don Carter, the district's assistant superintendent of instruction. The district is a member of Self Insured Schools of California, which sent a safety and loss control specialist to evaluate the mishap. It is still being assessed and it's too early to comment on the investigation of what happened, said Jim Varley, spokesman for the Kern County Superintendent of Schools office that houses SISC. Several East Bakersfield High School students were sent to local hospitals after something went wrong during a chemistry class demonstration, and pieces of glass shot across the classroom. Administrators at the high school are investigating, too, but Carter said he couldn't comment on the specifics of what happened until he sees a report from the teacher. "It is a textbook-approved demonstration and it is fairly benign," said John Gibson, principal of East Bakersfield High School, adding that the demonstration is done by some teachers early in the chemistry course. "Something didn't work right and that's what we are looking into." Brad Rappleye, teacher and chairman of the science department at Highland High School, also in the KHSD, said that "to use methanol is not uncommon. It's a simple alcohol." He said students are taught how to wear safety equipment and use eye washers, showers and fire extinguishers as needed. Rappleye pointed out that at Highland alone there are about 45 science classes that meet every school day, creating thousands and thousands of hours that students and teachers work in science labs across the district. Rappleye said the district's safety record is good, and teachers always look for ways to make it even better. For example, he pointed out that several years ago the district began using smaller quantities of chemicals, not just to conserve resources and cut down on the cost of disposing of waste, but also to improve safety. What precautions are required? "Generally when demonstrations or experiments in science classrooms that involve corrosive liquids or combustible materials, that in the judgement of the instructor pose a safety risk, that appropriate eye protection be used by those involved," Carter said. He said school officials rely on the teacher's judgment, coupled with safety precautions listed in lab manuals or from the chemical suppliers, to decide when and what kind of safety measures should be taken. Carter said the district follows the California Education Code that says eye protection should be used when engaging in or observing anything likely to be hazardous. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:45:08 -0400 Reply-To: "edmiston@bluffton.edu" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Edmiston Organization: Bluffton College Subject: Re: Re(3): Explosion at Bakersfield High School MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry, but I don't quite buy this. By mentioning the weight of the car and occupants, the implication (perhaps not intended) is that this car could be flung a couple hundred feet into the air by the explosion of 2 ml of methanol. If it were truly intended to imply that 2 ml of methanol can roll a car down a smooth level street a distance of a couple hundred feet, then the weight of the car and occupants wouldn't matter much, because all we're doing is supplying the work to overcome rolling friction and air friction. That actually isn't very much. I am often surprised how little rolling friction there is in my Chrysler minivan. On my smooth level garage floor I can put that car in neutral and easily push it with one hand. So don't be fooled into thinking that rolling a 2000 pound car plus occupants a couple hundred feet is a tremendous feat. The reason we get 20 miles per gallon (instead of a lot more) is (1) accelerating and decelerating (i.e. putting energy into heat in the brakes) and (2) air friction at highway speeds. The energy expended into rolling friction at low speeds is not very much. Basically, I am unable to decide if I should be impressed by Jim's calculation or not. Here's the way I would do it: (1) The heat of combustion of gaseous methanol is 764 kJ/mol. (2) 2 ml methanol * 0.79 g/ml / 32 g/mol = 0.0494 mol (3) 0.0494 mol * 764 kJ/mol = 37.7 kJ energy released by 2 ml methanol (4) If we were lift a 2000-lb car plus 1000-lb of occupants straight up, the energy required is mgh where m is the mass, g is 9.8 m/s^2, h is the height to which it is lifted. (5) 3000-lb / 2.2 lb/kg = 1364 kg (6) h = U/mg = 37.7E3 joules / (1364 kg * 9.8 m/s^2) = 2.8 meters Therefore, if none of this energy escaped as heat, and all of it went into lifting... complete explosive combustion of 2 ml of methanol could blast a 2000-lb car with 1000-lb of occupants straight up into the air a distance of 2.8 meters. That's above my head. I do not have to wonder whether or not to be impressed by that... that's clearly impressive. So Jim's overall message is a good one. But I don't want anyone to have the impression that 2 ml of methanol could blast a car 200 feet into the air. Again, Jim might not have intended that interpretation, but I suspect some of you thought that. And for those who imagined rolling a car for 200 feet, it's hard to judge if that's impressive or not. Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: 419-358-3270 Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: 419-358-3323 Chairman, Science Department E-Mail edmiston@bluffton.edu Bluffton College 280 West College Avenue Bluffton, OH 45817 -----Original Message----- From: Labsafe@AOL.COM [SMTP:Labsafe@AOL.COM] Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 9:56 PM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Re(3): Explosion at Bakersfield High School In a message dated 99-08-31 15:46:42 EDT, you write: << And where they got such powerful Methanol. 2 ml?? >> Hi NACHOs, One gallon of gasoline (about 4000 ml) can take a 2000 pound car and five 150-200 pound passengers anywhere from 15 to 30 miles. Now, that engine is only about 20% efficient. So, if all the energy were used, that would be 75 to 150 miles. Now divide by 2000. So, two ml of gasoline is good for sending a 2000 pound car and five folks about 0.04 to 0.08 miles (200-400 feet). Of course, methanol liberates less energy on combustion. But, you get the idea. Bottom line... don't kid yourself about the damage that 2ml of fuel can do on a bad day.... ... jim ***************************************************** James A. Kaufman, Director The Laboratory Safety Workshop Safety in Science Education 192 Worcester Road, Natick, MA 01760 508-647-1900 Fax: 508-647-0062 labsafe@aol.com http://www.labsafety.org/ LSW is a national non-profit educational organization dedicated to making health and safety an integral and important part of science education. Free copies of our Laboratory Safety Guidelines, seminar schedule, Publications List, AV-Lending Library List, and membership information are available on request. The LABSAFETY-L discussion list is a public service of LSW. ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:29:25 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Elise Windus Subject: Re: Acid use in teaching labs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It will probably also work with some of the less dangerous acids, and even with some dilute ones. Why don't you have someone on staff explore this a little? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:33:22 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Re: Acid use in teaching labs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Why Concentrated nitric? I'm sure a more dilute solution would achieve similar results. What's happening now just sounds like a bad lab experiment give lack of engineering controls. For what its worth, Janeen. :):):):):):):):):):):):) Janeen Lapierre, CHO College of Osteopathic Medicine University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446 Opinions are mine and not those of UNE. >>> Naomi Kelly - 9/1/99 8:59 AM >>> We have biology labs that use concentrated nitric acid to show reaction with egg yolks. They are presently conducting this experiment without the use of hoods. The students do this experiment themselves using about 2-3 ml of nitric/experiment. This experiment is performed about 270 times over the course of a week. I have outlined the PPE requirements. But they do not have a hoods in these labs. Thoughts on ventilation requirements would be appreciated. Naomi Kelly Environmental Health and Safety Officer Clemson University 261 P&AS Building Clemson, SC 29634-5740 (864)656-7554 Fax (864)656-7630 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:35:26 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Gillian Gardner Subject: Re: Acid use in teaching labs In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII We do a similar experiment from the Chemistry in Context laboratory manual. Instead of yolks, though, it uses a solution of 1 egg white in 100 ml water. Instead of conc. acids, we use 6 M solutions of HCl, H2SO4 and HNO3. Gillian Gardner On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, Janeen LaPierre wrote: > Why Concentrated nitric? I'm sure a more dilute solution would achieve similar results. What's happening now just sounds like a bad lab experiment give lack of engineering controls. > > For what its worth, Janeen. > > :):):):):):):):):):):):) > Janeen Lapierre, CHO > College of Osteopathic Medicine > University of New England > 11 Hills Beach Road > Biddeford, ME 04005 > > E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU > Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446 > Opinions are mine and not those of UNE. > > >>> Naomi Kelly - 9/1/99 8:59 AM >>> > We have biology labs that use concentrated nitric acid to show reaction > with egg yolks. They are presently conducting this experiment without the > use of hoods. The students do this experiment themselves using about 2-3 ml > of nitric/experiment. This experiment is performed about 270 times over the > course of a week. I have outlined the PPE requirements. But they do not > have a hoods in these labs. Thoughts on ventilation requirements would be > appreciated. > > > > > > Naomi Kelly > Environmental Health and Safety Officer > Clemson University > 261 P&AS Building > Clemson, SC 29634-5740 > (864)656-7554 > Fax (864)656-7630 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:48:43 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: david shearer Subject: MSDS & SOP for LN2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for a good MSDS for liguid nitrogen (LN2) and general Standard Operating Procedures for handling & transferring between dewars in laboratory. Sources? Thanks David Shearer Laboratory Hygienist University Safety Office, MSC3578 New Mexico State University P.O.Box 30001 Las Cruces, NM 88003 Tel: (505) 646-3327 Fax: (505) 646-7898 e-mail: dshearer@nmsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:35:42 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: PATRICIA BARKER Organization: Wabash College Subject: Re: MSDS & SOP for LN2 In-Reply-To: <37CEAA6A.A80F36B7@nmsu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT David, Try Puritan Bennett. Mine is sepcifically for liquid Nitrogen. Pat Date sent: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:48:43 -0600 From: david shearer Subject: MSDS & SOP for LN2 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Send reply to: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List I am looking for a good MSDS for liguid nitrogen (LN2) and general Standard Operating Procedures for handling & transferring between dewars in laboratory. Sources? Thanks David Shearer Laboratory Hygienist University Safety Office, MSC3578 New Mexico State University P.O.Box 30001 Las Cruces, NM 88003 Tel: (505) 646-3327 Fax: (505) 646-7898 e-mail: dshearer@nmsu.edu ********************************************************************** Patricia Barker Barkerp@Wabash.edu Curator, Chemistry Department Phone 765-361-6207 Wabash College 301 West Wabash Ave Fax 765-361-6340 Crawfordsville, IN 47933 8:-) ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:52:22 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Debbie Decker Subject: Re: MSDS & SOP for LN2 In-Reply-To: <37CEAA6A.A80F36B7@nmsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:48 AM 9/2/99 -0600, you wrote: >I am looking for a good MSDS for liguid nitrogen (LN2) and general >Standard Operating Procedures for handling & transferring between dewars >in laboratory. Sources? David: Head out to our website, http://ehs.ucdavis.edu, and search for liquid nitrogen. It should pull up several references we have on the site about working with cryogens. The search is a new feature - let me know how it works :) Regards, Deb. Debbie M. Decker, Health and Safety Specialist Environmental Health and Safety University of California, Davis 1 Shields Ave. Davis, CA 95616 (530)754-7964 (530)752-1493 dmdecker@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:54:54 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Hottott Subject: Re: Explosion at Bakersfield High School In-Reply-To: <01BEF4CB.A5398020.edmiston@bluffton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" For those of you interested in reading about the demo and safety notes, check out: J Chem Ed 1999, 76, 1092-94: That's the August 1999 issue. \ Palatino0BEF,00F5,1197- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Michael G. Hottott Department of Chemistry University of Puget Sound Tacoma, WA 98416 e-mail: mhottott@ups.edu Voice: 253-879-3350 FAX: 253-879-3352 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:49:31 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Julie O'Brien Subject: Cylinder storage guidelines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are revising our cylinder storage guidelines. I would like to get some examples of wording used regarding how to secure a single cylinder and also multiple cylinders in a single area. I am needing policies about small cylinders, such as lecture bottles, and "standard" cylinders that nitrogen, helium, and hydrogen come in. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Julie O'Brien Archimica (Florida) and EXPO The Children's Museum of Gainesville afn35210@afn.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:54:12 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Julie O'Brien Subject: Safety inspection checklists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do any of you use checklists to perform safety inspections? I am collecting different types of checklists which are available. If you have one which you think works well, could you send or fax a copy to me? If you do not use checklists, what type of documentation do you use? Our safety team performs monthly inspections. We are trying to develop a non-regulatory system for our safety team inspections. (We already have another group who performs routine regulatory inspections.) We would like the format to be simple enough that very little additional training would be required. Thanks for your suggestions! Julie O'Brien Archimica (Florida) PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 (work) 352-373-7503 (fax) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:38:15 -0400 Reply-To: "edmiston@bluffton.edu" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Edmiston Organization: Bluffton College Subject: Re: Acid use in teaching labs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gillian Gardner suggested using 6 M solutions of acids outside the fume hood rather than attempting to use the concentrated acid. I would like to add my affirmation to this suggestion and also describe our policy. Our chemical hygiene plan calls for all use of concentrated acids (HCl, HNO3, H2SO4, acetic, etc.) in the fume hood... even small quantities. The problem, of course, is the vapors, because even one whiff of the vapors from conc. HCl is not good for the nose, eyes, etc. Absolutely requiring these in the hood is both prudent and also consistent with the MSDS and bottle labels. But diluted solutions of these acids emit much less vapor (as long as they're not heated nor evaporated). Our policy, for HCl, for example, is that each student in a lab (with fume hoods running) may use up to 100 ml of 6 N HCl on the bench top as long as it is not being heated or evaporated (spread over large area). They can use similar ratios, i.e. up to 200 ml of 3 N HCl, up to 400 ml of 1.5 N HCl. Of course evaporation is a problem with spills, so spilled material must properly cleaned up... it cannot just be spread out to evaporate. It's interesting that acetic acid (in this grouping) causes more of a problem. Even a 5% solution (common vinegar) causes complaints if it is being heated. Some people are very sensitive to this and become nauseous or get headaches. Even running vinegar through our department's coffee pot causes some people to become ill. Thus, we actually clean our coffee pot in a fume hood. Thus, for things like acetic acid, not only do we have a numerical suggestion for the strength of solution that can be used outside the hood, we also have an odor policy. If dilute acetic acid is being used outside the hood, but someone complains they smell it and it is bothering them, it must go into the hood. In general, that requires even vinegar be used in the hood if it is being heated. Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: 419-358-3270 Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: 419-358-3323 Chairman, Science Department E-Mail edmiston@bluffton.edu Bluffton College 280 West College Avenue Bluffton, OH 45817 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:32:51 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Gonzalez, Lisa" Subject: Re: Safety inspection checklists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01BEF621.8436797E" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01BEF621.8436797E Content-Type: text/plain Here is the one we use. I also have a training session that coincides with this in PowerPoint. I can email that to individuals if you want it. <> Lisa A. Gonzalez, NRCC-CHO R&D Safety and Health Officer lisa.gonzalez@pharma.com -----Original Message----- From: Julie O'Brien [SMTP:afn35210@AFN.ORG] Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 8:54 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Safety inspection checklists Do any of you use checklists to perform safety inspections? I am collecting different types of checklists which are available. If you have one which you think works well, could you send or fax a copy to me? If you do not use checklists, what type of documentation do you use? Our safety team performs monthly inspections. We are trying to develop a non-regulatory system for our safety team inspections. (We already have another group who performs routine regulatory inspections.) We would like the format to be simple enough that very little additional training would be required. Thanks for your suggestions! Julie O'Brien Archimica (Florida) PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 (work) 352-373-7503 (fax) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:33:09 -0500 Reply-To: swihart@purdue.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: L A Swihart Organization: Purdue University Subject: Re: Explosion at Bakersfield High School MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Teresa Robertson wrote: > article below is from bakersfield.com > 9-1-99, 8:00 am > You will find a photo of the classroom at the website. This morning's > printed paper also had a photo of a student at the hospital waiting for > stitches, an explanation of the experiment with diagrams, and a diagram of > the classroom showing location of desks, students, demo table, etc. Now that a few days have passed and the newspaper articles are in web archives, I can't seem to find any photos. If you captured any or have a link that still works, please let me know. I would like to see. The three articles I found in the archives can be reached via the LSW web site NEWS link. http://www.labsafety.org/ Linda ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:37:53 -0500 Reply-To: swihart@purdue.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: L A Swihart Organization: Purdue University Subject: Re: Cylinder storage guidelines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > We are revising our cylinder storage guidelines. I would like to get some > examples of wording used regarding how to secure a single cylinder and also > multiple cylinders in a single area. I am needing policies about small > cylinders, such as lecture bottles, and "standard" cylinders that nitrogen, > helium, and hydrogen come in. Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Julie O'Brien A policy that I have been working with is that uncapped cylinders must be supported individually. Whether they're actually "in use," or attached to equipment, or have a regulator hooked up.... is irrelevant. If the cap is not on (all the way), they have to be supported each by its own support, not ganged together two or twenty behind a single chain. It only makes sense because if you've got more than one behind a single chain, guess how many are NOT SUPPORTED at all when you undo the chain to change one out... $.02 Linda ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:11:32 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Bob CArey Subject: Re: Safety inspection checklists MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEF5EC.51A1D580" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEF5EC.51A1D580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lisa, Thanks for your willingness to share your PowerPoint presention with = interested people. I would love to see it. Would you please e-mail it = to me at rcarey@pimacc.pima.edu? Thank-you, Rob Carey ---------- From: Gonzalez, Lisa[SMTP:Lisa.Gonzalez@PHARMA.COM] Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 8:32 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Safety inspection checklists <> Here is the one we use. I also have a training session that coincides = with this in PowerPoint. I can email that to individuals if you want it. <> Lisa A. Gonzalez, NRCC-CHO R&D Safety and Health Officer lisa.gonzalez@pharma.com -----Original Message----- From: Julie O'Brien [SMTP:afn35210@AFN.ORG] Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 8:54 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Safety inspection checklists Do any of you use checklists to perform safety inspections? I am collecting different types of checklists which are available. If you have = one which you think works well, could you send or fax a copy to me? If you do = not use checklists, what type of documentation do you use? Our safety = team performs monthly inspections. We are trying to develop a non-regulatory system for our safety team inspections. (We already have another group who performs routine regulatory inspections.) We would like the format to be simple enough that very little additional training would be required. Thanks for your suggestions! Julie O'Brien Archimica (Florida) PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 (work) 352-373-7503 (fax) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:49:05 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Naomi Kelly Subject: Re: Safety inspection checklists In-Reply-To: <01BEF5EC.51896B80@ecc-54330.ec.pima.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have not been able to open your attachment successfully--what program what used? Thanks At 09:11 AM 9/3/99 -0700, you wrote: >Lisa, > >Thanks for your willingness to share your PowerPoint presention with >interested people. I would love to see it. Would you please e-mail it to >me at rcarey@pimacc.pima.edu? > >Thank-you, > >Rob Carey > >---------- >From: Gonzalez, Lisa[SMTP:Lisa.Gonzalez@PHARMA.COM] >Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 8:32 AM >To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU >Subject: Re: Safety inspection checklists > ><> >Here is the one we use. I also have a training session that coincides with >this in PowerPoint. I can email that to individuals if you want it. > > > <> > > >Lisa A. Gonzalez, NRCC-CHO >R&D Safety and Health Officer >lisa.gonzalez@pharma.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Julie O'Brien [SMTP:afn35210@AFN.ORG] > Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 8:54 AM > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: Safety inspection checklists > > Do any of you use checklists to perform safety inspections? I am >collecting > different types of checklists which are available. If you have one >which you > think works well, could you send or fax a copy to me? If you do not >use > checklists, what type of documentation do you use? Our safety team >performs > monthly inspections. We are trying to develop a non-regulatory >system for > our safety team inspections. (We already have another group who >performs > routine regulatory inspections.) We would like the format to be >simple > enough that very little additional training would be required. >Thanks for > your suggestions! > > Julie O'Brien > Archimica (Florida) > PO Box 1466 > Gainesville, FL 32602 > 352-376-8246 (work) > 352-373-7503 (fax) > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 14:55:30 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Frank l. Switzer" Subject: Re: Safety inspection checklists In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990903134709.009e8200@mail.clemson.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:49 PM 9/3/99 -0400, you wrote: >I have not been able to open your attachment successfully--what program >what used? >Thanks Some older versions of e-mail programs have trouble with attachments with long file names (more than 8 characters). Eudora Lite 3.0.6 or newer works with these (eudora.com). It's an MSWord document. Regards, Frank =============================================== Frank L. Switzer, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Chemistry, Coker College 300 East College Ave. Hartsville, SC 29550 Phone: (843)383-8090 Fax:(843)383-8048 e-mail: fswitzer@pascal.coker.edu http://www.coker.edu/chemistry =============================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 14:18:31 -0500 Reply-To: swihart@purdue.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: L A Swihart Organization: Purdue University Subject: see checklists at web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The problem is also sometimes that many many people are still working with Window 3.x and Word 6. (Or whatever operating system, but with some older word processing software that will not open Word 97 or Word 2000 -- or some other relatively recent format -- files. There are some checklists and links to checklists at the LSW web site. There are some choices too, for Word 6, Word 97, or RTF (rich text format). RTF files should open with most or all basic formatting preserved on most all Macs and PCs, with any word processing software released within about the last five years (I'm guessing but I think that's about right. Anybody who konws a lot about it let me know if it's not.) http://www.labsafety.org/ Choose Services and then "free docs." Linda Frank l. Switzer wrote: > > At 01:49 PM 9/3/99 -0400, you wrote: > >I have not been able to open your attachment successfully--what program > >what used? > >Thanks > > Some older versions of e-mail programs have trouble with attachments > with long file names (more than 8 characters). Eudora Lite 3.0.6 > or newer works with these (eudora.com). It's an MSWord document. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:27:23 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Gonzalez, Lisa" Subject: Re: Safety inspection checklists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01BEF642.4B43A4E2" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01BEF642.4B43A4E2 Content-Type: text/plain No problem. I hope it is useful. <> Lisa A. Gonzalez, NRCC-CHO R&D Safety and Health Officer lisa.gonzalez@pharma.com -----Original Message----- From: rcarey@east.pima.edu [SMTP:rcarey@east.pima.edu] Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 12:12 PM To: 'LABSAFETY-L Discussion List' Subject: RE: Safety inspection checklists Lisa, Thanks for your willingness to share your PowerPoint presention with interested people. I would love to see it. Would you please e-mail it to me at rcarey@pimacc.pima.edu? Thank-you, Rob Carey ---------- From: Gonzalez, Lisa[SMTP:Lisa.Gonzalez@PHARMA.COM] Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 8:32 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Re: Safety inspection checklists <> Here is the one we use. I also have a training session that coincides with this in PowerPoint. I can email that to individuals if you want it. <> Lisa A. Gonzalez, NRCC-CHO R&D Safety and Health Officer lisa.gonzalez@pharma.com -----Original Message----- From: Julie O'Brien [SMTP:afn35210@AFN.ORG] Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 8:54 AM To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Safety inspection checklists Do any of you use checklists to perform safety inspections? I am collecting different types of checklists which are available. If you have one which you think works well, could you send or fax a copy to me? If you do not use checklists, what type of documentation do you use? Our safety team performs monthly inspections. We are trying to develop a non-regulatory system for our safety team inspections. (We already have another group who performs routine regulatory inspections.) We would like the format to be simple enough that very little additional training would be required. Thanks for your suggestions! Julie O'Brien Archimica (Florida) PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 (work) 352-373-7503 (fax) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:18:43 -0500 Reply-To: swihart@purdue.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: L A Swihart Organization: Purdue University Subject: well... ppt presentation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a dumb time to ask you these questions, but oh well. (I mean it's dumb since I'm essentially done doing what it is I'm asking you if it's OK to do, plus some finer details about it.) Do you want the ppt presentation available from the LSW web site? The implications: pro: People can get it without you having to send it to them people will simply find it (maybe) it's generic (I made it generic); others can use it there is a web version; I prefer this for presentations even though you can't advance the projector with a remote anymore con: Anybody could take it and say they wrote it (even sell it, or try to copyright it). PRobably not awfully likely, but it's there. Options for having it at the LSW web site are: 1)Make it generic but cite you as the author, and include a "may be used for educational purposes only... may not be exchanged for goods, services, or currency. Author will incur no liability related to the adequacy of the material for the needs of any audience." or something like that. 2) Don't make it generic, and disclaim it similarly. See the link to your presentation at http://www.labsafety.org/freedocs.htm or the ppt presentation it leads to at http://www.labsafety.org/files/ppt1/ What are your thoughts about this? Thanks, Linda ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:27:11 -0500 Reply-To: swihart@purdue.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: L A Swihart Organization: Purdue University Subject: ARRRGGGGHHHH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That was supposed to go to Lisa, not to the list. I am very sorry. Linda L A Swihart wrote: > > This is a dumb time to ask you these questions, but oh well. (I mean ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 17:14:15 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Re: Safety inspection checklists In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Fellow NACHO-ites, PLEASE do not send attachments directly to the list. Thanks, JNR Jeff Rubin jrubin@mail.utexas.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 05:45:56 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: CHEMCOM Digest - 1 Sep 1999 to 2 Sep 1999 (#1999-144) Comments: To: CHEMCOM@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu Comments: cc: SAFETY@list.uvm.edu, chemed-l@atlantis.uwf.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi CHEMCOM, CHEMEDs, NACHOs, and SAFETYs, I would appreciate hearing what other readers think about having lab accident reports referred to their list and their reaction to Bob's comments. ... Jim In a message dated 9/3/99 12:05:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU writes: << Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:54:00 -0400 From: Bob Venner Subject: Methanol Demo This is not an endorsement for careless (or hazardous) lab procedures, but let's recognize that more mishaps are likely in the Chemistry Lab than the English classroom. Marty is absolutely correct on SEVERAL points and this persistent, wanna be lawyer, JAMES A. KAUFMAN, is feeding the bureaucratic and administrative scare frenzy by gleefully advertising this accident (He had his ominous, unbiased announcements/warnings on 2 lists before the "smoke" cleared But of course, that's how he hopes to make a living!). Because of attitudes like JAK's, his scare tactics, with willing help from the American Bar Association, our children are being trained, by default, to be victims at the drop of a hat, wherever and whenever the opportunity presents itself. The entire methanol mishap is just that, a mishap. (Plus, think of the teaching points in just the mishap itself.) It SHOULD NOT become a "federal case", but no suck luck, thanks to JAK and his ilk (I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut, JAK has already alerted 6.022 X 10^23 lawyers.). The more labs we do, the more we NEED (to pay) JAK. If we don't pay-up/enlist, we have no excuse because we were warned of the dangers, with examples, by JAK . Woe be unto us! Bob Venner Virginia Beach VA >> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:00:18 -0500 Reply-To: swihart@purdue.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: L A Swihart Organization: Purdue University Subject: response to Venner's little bout of Jim-bashing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hi CHEMCOM, CHEMEDs, NACHOs, and SAFETYs, > I would appreciate hearing what other readers think about having lab accident > reports referred to their list and their reaction to Bob's comments. ... Jim >> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:54:00 -0400 >> From: Bob Venner >> Subject: Methanol Demo >> >> This is not an endorsement for careless (or hazardous) lab procedures, but >> let's recognize that more mishaps are likely in the Chemistry Lab than the >> English classroom. I guess so. Not sure what his point is exactly. Does he suppose this is not obvious? Of course in either classroom they are less likely when greater care is taken to prevent them. >> Marty is absolutely correct on SEVERAL points and this persistent, wanna be >> lawyer, JAMES A. KAUFMAN, is feeding the bureaucratic and administrative >> scare frenzy by gleefully advertising this accident (He had his ominous, >> unbiased announcements/warnings on 2 lists before the "smoke" cleared But >> of course, that's how he hopes to make a living!). Because of attitudes >> like JAK's, his scare tactics, with willing help from the American Bar >> Association, our children are being trained, by default, to be victims at >> the drop of a hat, wherever and whenever the opportunity presents itself. I have studied all the CHEMCOM posts at their archives http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/chemcom.html to see what this is all about. MNSHO is that Mr. Venner was just having a bad day, although David Hole has written a sincere and thoughtfull consideration of the perceptions which might be triggered in some readers by Jim's posts, < http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9909&L=chemcom&F=&S=&P=1066 >, and Mr. Venner seems to be one of those people (having a bad day). And Jim, this is basically one of the big reasons I advised you once to drop the LSW "advertising" signature from your email posts, at least to the lists.) What Marty Bessant said (which Venner refers to) is at < http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9909&L=chemcom&F=&S=&P=180 > and I never quite followed him when it appeared on the Labsafety-L list (unless I'm missing a post). Part of it is irrelevant, posted when people were speculating about why the demo ignited, before anyone identified it as having been LIT intentionally. The rest is Bessant's musing sceptical on the number of injuries being inflated, or the report being exaggerated.... a possible pooh-poohing of the idea that so many were taken to the hospital and regarded as injured and that this is a bad thing because it encourages people to sue. I agree that this can happen (people thinking they should sue because somebody makes a serious deal out of minor injuries), but all such injuries are serious. I don't mean they're "serious injuries," but that they have to taken very seriously and looked at by a doctor. A kid with a little cut on the arm could have a half-centimeter piece of glass inside and it would be criminal to overlook it, for example. The "ominous, unbiased announcements/warnings" (did he mean unbiased or biased?) seem to be merely the copies of news articles. I DO NOT SEE AND HAVE NEVER SEEN that Jim encourages victim mentality or intends to alert lawyers so he can further his career as a lecturer or expert witness. I whole-heartedly believe that his interest in and devotion to safety in education (and in using electronic communication to its fullest to share relevant information) is not based on furthering his career but on genuine care and conviction. It's always a little confusing knowing whether to believe someone who's endorsing a product that they sell. There are so many charlatans and liars in the world endorsing mediocre or bad products, and out solely for personal gain, that the confusion is understandable. (My personal take on why the world is going to hell-in-a-handbasket in this manner is that every time we let someone cheat, even a little, e.g. permit someone to tell the 7-year-old to stand on his toes to be that half-inch taller so he can ride the big coaster, silently suffer a friend's fib about the 13-year old so she gets the 12-year-old movie price, gloat about getting too much change at the grocery.... we teach our children to be dishonest to get what they want. So they grow up doing it) >> The entire methanol mishap is just that, a mishap. (Plus, think of the >> teaching points in just the mishap itself.) It SHOULD NOT become a >> "federal case", but no suck luck, thanks to JAK and his ilk (I'll bet a >> dollar to a doughnut, JAK has already alerted 6.022 X 10^23 lawyers.). One of my least favorite sayings is (paraphrased) "STUFF HAPPENS." Sure it does, but less of it happens to people who are careful. I agree that we should milk every accident we can find for all the training benefits for which it can be used. And I would like to thank "JAK and his ilk" for helping make accident stories available. >> The more labs we do, the more we NEED (to pay) JAK. If we don't >> pay-up/enlist, we have no excuse because we were warned of the dangers, >> with examples, by JAK . Woe be unto us! I say BS about the woe part. $0.02, Linda ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:56:06 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Job Oppening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:06:52 -0400 From: "Cohen, Barry" Subject: Employment Opportunity DO NOT REPLY TO THE LIST ======================================== Please respond to: Beverly Gaal Manager, Corporate Health & Safety Genzyme Corporation Metro West Place Framingham, MA 01701 Employment Opportunity Site Manager, Health & Safety Department Genzyme Corporation 76 New York Avenue Framingham, MA 01701 Corporation Overview Founded in 1981, Genzyme Corporation is a healthcare products company that focuses on developing and providing innovative solutions to major unresolved medical needs. The Corporation is organized into four primary business areas-- biotherapeutics, surgical products, diagnostic products & services, and pharmaceuticals and fine chemicals. The corporation's international headquarters are located in Cambridge, Massachusetts, with production and research facilities in Boston, Cambridge and Framingham, Massachusetts. Internationally, the corporation is located in Maidstone and Haverhill, England; Russelsheim Germany, Italy, The Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland and Japan. The Company currently employs approximately 3500 people worldwide. Minimum Job Requirements Bachelor of Science in a related field (natural sciences, industrial hygiene, occupational health & safety); or equivalent. Full understanding of and the ability to apply established principles, theories, and concepts of industrial hygiene and hazard risk assessment. Minimum of ten years operational skills in a laboratory & production environment. Knowledge of laboratory and process equipment and current Good Manufacturing Practices. Working knowledge of state and federal regulations pertaining to occupational health and safety. Excellent organizational, communication, and problem-solving skills. Brief Job Description To monitor activities and operations in Framingham facilities to ensure compliance with all applicable occupational health and safety regulations and corporate policies. Provide overall management and guidance to supervisors and employees at all Framingham facilities. Advise and assist operational supervisors/managers on occupational health and safety aspects of their operations. Train employees and supervisors/managers in the areas of occupational health and safety. Perform and document site-specific internal audits and inspections to ensure compliance with corporate policies and procedures. -------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:10:28 -0400 From: "Cohen, Barry" Subject: Employment Opp (More Info) DO NOT REPLY TO THE LIST =================================== Please respond to: Beverly Gaal Manager, Corporate Health & Safety Genzyme Corporation Metro West Place Framingham, MA 01701 (508) 270-2102 bgaal@genzyme.com Employment Opportunity Site Manager, Health & Safety Department Genzyme Corporation 76 New York Avenue Framingham, MA 01701 Corporation Overview Founded in 1981, Genzyme Corporation is a healthcare products company that focuses on developing and providing innovative solutions to major unresolved medical needs. The Corporation is organized into four primary business areas-- biotherapeutics, surgical products, diagnostic products & services, and pharmaceuticals and fine chemicals. The corporation's international headquarters are located in Cambridge, Massachusetts, with production and research facilities in Boston, Cambridge and Framingham, Massachusetts. Internationally, the corporation is located in Maidstone and Haverhill, England; Russelsheim Germany, Italy, The Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland and Japan. The Company currently employs approximately 3500 people worldwide. Minimum Job Requirements Bachelor of Science in a related field (natural sciences, industrial hygiene, occupational health & safety); or equivalent. Full understanding of and the ability to apply established principles, theories, and concepts of industrial hygiene and hazard risk assessment. Minimum of ten years operational skills in a laboratory & production environment. Knowledge of laboratory and process equipment and current Good Manufacturing Practices. Working knowledge of state and federal regulations pertaining to occupational health and safety. Excellent organizational, communication, and problem-solving skills. Brief Job Description To monitor activities and operations in Framingham facilities to ensure compliance with all applicable occupational health and safety regulations and corporate policies. Provide overall management and guidance to supervisors and employees at all Framingham facilities. Advise and assist operational supervisors/managers on occupational health and safety aspects of their operations. Train employees and supervisors/managers in the areas of occupational health and safety. Perform and document site-specific internal audits and inspections to ensure compliance with corporate policies and procedures. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:14:04 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Jeff Rubin Subject: Re: CHEMCOM Digest - 1 Sep 1999 to 2 Sep 1999 (#1999-144) In-Reply-To: <735d5065.250395d4@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As I'm no longer representing an august institution, I'll abandon decorum and opine that the sender is unbound by burdens of fact, rational thought, or much else but unfiltered emotion (and apparently a very large chip on his shoulder). I thought the updates got a little thick, and a blow-by-blow wasn't necessary, but the incident itself is of value. Of course, we must always be careful about speculating before we possess facts - we can leave that to the media... I decided not to jump into the fray that Marty was starting about a possibly inflated injury count, but what the heck... After 12 years in one form of EMS or another, I can say with certainty that many people we assess, treat, and transport have neither urgent nor emergent conditions. Nonetheless, the laws that set up 9-1-1 allows the user to define "emergency" and public-safety providers are victims of their own success. Add to this that most administrators (including those in schools) are EXTREMELY reluctant to take responsibility for one of their kids not going to the hospitals, and you have a common result: lots of unnecessary ambulance transports and ER visits. I have no idea what type of injuries there were in the lab, but if a bus running over a curb and jostling its riders can result in ambulance transports - requested by the bus company, anything can. Unlike bus incidents, where golddigging is common, I'm guessing we didn't have any fortune hunters among the students (is this naive?). While I'm at it, a word or two about lawyers. I'd say that, on average, 50% of what I and my fellow medics did on a typical call (especially if it involved a low-speed motor-vehicle collision) was not medically necessary - I called it "treating the lawyers." Like most of the public, I do not hold the legal profession in high esteem. I think they have the power that few other professions do: to generate additional business merely by their presence. That said, whether it's ultimately fear of litigation, fear of fines, fear of "doing the wrong thing" in general, or just a desire to improve, our legal system has forced many service providers, EMS among the most notable, to standardize, justify, and better document the services they provide. Does anyone think most of their employers would even have EH&S departments if they didn't have to? In other words, and I can't believe I'm giving credit to litigators in a public forum, liability has forced many people, including those in labs, to clean up their acts. Does it get excessive, absolutely? Is it an ill wind? Nope. Sorry for the soapbox - amazing what a little more time on one's hands can lead to... JNR > This is not an endorsement for careless (or hazardous) lab procedures, but > let's recognize that more mishaps are likely in the Chemistry Lab than the > English classroom. > > Marty is absolutely correct on SEVERAL points and this persistent, wanna be > lawyer, JAMES A. KAUFMAN, is feeding the bureaucratic and administrative > scare frenzy by gleefully advertising this accident (He had his ominous, > unbiased announcements/warnings on 2 lists before the "smoke" cleared But > of course, that's how he hopes to make a living!). Because of attitudes > like JAK's, his scare tactics, with willing help from the American Bar > Association, our children are being trained, by default, to be victims at > the drop of a hat, wherever and whenever the opportunity presents itself. > > The entire methanol mishap is just that, a mishap. (Plus, think of the > teaching points in just the mishap itself.) It SHOULD NOT become a > "federal case", but no suck luck, thanks to JAK and his ilk (I'll bet a > dollar to a doughnut, JAK has already alerted 6.022 X 10^23 lawyers.). > > The more labs we do, the more we NEED (to pay) JAK. If we don't > pay-up/enlist, we have no excuse because we were warned of the dangers, > with examples, by JAK . Woe be unto us! > > Bob Venner > Virginia Beach VA >> > Jeff Rubin jrubin@mail.utexas.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:03:33 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Mary Ann Solstad Subject: Re: CHEMCOM Digest - 1 Sep 1999 to 2 Sep 1999 (#1999-144) In-Reply-To: <199909060009.TAA24352@saluki-mailsmtp.siu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" I was going to wade in with a great discourse, but I can scarcely top Jeff Rubin's comments; I will add some words of my own. First, JK's passion is safety and not support of ambulance chasers. No sense impugning his motives. 2nd, we do learn from accidents, but still better not to have them. The mishap with the methanol experiment was undoubtedly preventible. The glass near eyes certainly was preventable if all were wearing goggles or safety glasses. 3rd, An excuse is usually, "It was just an accident". But if we examine closely, we can usually see a near miss which can warn us of a potential accident, and thus prevent it. (Kudos to Jay Young for that insight). 4th, I agree totally about the excess of possibly injured people taken to ER's. It does little to help them and fuels chem phobia, but not sure what can be done about it. PS: For a lesson from today's headlines: The young women's soccer (I think) team who sustained injuries when a plane hit turbulence when many were tossed to the ceiling or across the aisle. I'm sure the Captain had advised all to wear seat belts when seated, but they neglected to follow that advice. In the newscasts none of the young women took responsibility for their injuries. At 07:14 PM 9/5/99 -0500, you wrote: >As I'm no longer representing an august institution, I'll abandon decorum >and opine that the sender is unbound by burdens of fact, rational thought, >or much else but unfiltered emotion (and apparently a very large chip on >his shoulder). I thought the updates got a little thick, and a >blow-by-blow wasn't necessary, but the incident itself is of value. Of >course, we must always be careful about speculating before we possess facts >- we can leave that to the media... > >I decided not to jump into the fray that Marty was starting about a >possibly inflated injury count, but what the heck... After 12 years in one >form of EMS or another, I can say with certainty that many people we >assess, treat, and transport have neither urgent nor emergent conditions. >Nonetheless, the laws that set up 9-1-1 allows the user to define >"emergency" and public-safety providers are victims of their own success. >Add to this that most administrators (including those in schools) are >EXTREMELY reluctant to take responsibility for one of their kids not going >to the hospitals, and you have a common result: lots of unnecessary >ambulance transports and ER visits. I have no idea what type of injuries >there were in the lab, but if a bus running over a curb and jostling its >riders can result in ambulance transports - requested by the bus company, >anything can. Unlike bus incidents, where golddigging is common, I'm >guessing we didn't have any fortune hunters among the students (is this >naive?). > >While I'm at it, a word or two about lawyers. I'd say that, on average, >50% of what I and my fellow medics did on a typical call (especially if it >involved a low-speed motor-vehicle collision) was not medically necessary - >I called it "treating the lawyers." Like most of the public, I do not hold >the legal profession in high esteem. I think they have the power that few >other professions do: to generate additional business merely by their >presence. That said, whether it's ultimately fear of litigation, fear of >fines, fear of "doing the wrong thing" in general, or just a desire to >improve, our legal system has forced many service providers, EMS among the >most notable, to standardize, justify, and better document the services >they provide. Does anyone think most of their employers would even have >EH&S departments if they didn't have to? In other words, and I can't >believe I'm giving credit to litigators in a public forum, liability has >forced many people, including those in labs, to clean up their acts. Does >it get excessive, absolutely? Is it an ill wind? Nope. > >Sorry for the soapbox - amazing what a little more time on one's hands can >lead to... > >JNR > >> This is not an endorsement for careless (or hazardous) lab procedures, but >> let's recognize that more mishaps are likely in the Chemistry Lab than the >> English classroom. >> >> Marty is absolutely correct on SEVERAL points and this persistent, wanna be >> lawyer, JAMES A. KAUFMAN, is feeding the bureaucratic and administrative >> scare frenzy by gleefully advertising this accident (He had his ominous, >> unbiased announcements/warnings on 2 lists before the "smoke" cleared But >> of course, that's how he hopes to make a living!). Because of attitudes >> like JAK's, his scare tactics, with willing help from the American Bar >> Association, our children are being trained, by default, to be victims at >> the drop of a hat, wherever and whenever the opportunity presents itself. >> >> The entire methanol mishap is just that, a mishap. (Plus, think of the >> teaching points in just the mishap itself.) It SHOULD NOT become a >> "federal case", but no suck luck, thanks to JAK and his ilk (I'll bet a >> dollar to a doughnut, JAK has already alerted 6.022 X 10^23 lawyers.). >> >> The more labs we do, the more we NEED (to pay) JAK. If we don't >> pay-up/enlist, we have no excuse because we were warned of the dangers, >> with examples, by JAK . Woe be unto us! >> >> Bob Venner >> Virginia Beach VA >> >> >Jeff Rubin >jrubin@mail.utexas.edu > Mary Ann Mary Ann Solstad, CIH 16 Pequot Rd Marblehead, MA 01945-1202 tel 781-631-4748, FAX 781-631-1832 outmsolstad@mediaone.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 09:25:53 -0400 Reply-To: "edmiston@bluffton.edu" Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Michael Edmiston Organization: Bluffton College Subject: Re: Safety inspection checklists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Rubin says: Dear Fellow NACHO-ites, PLEASE do not send attachments directly to the list. Is there a good reason for this request? Of course I don't want all kinds of junk attachments, but the recent attachments were requested by some, they came across (to me) just fine, I was glad to receive them. Is there some problem I'm missing here? Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D. Phone/voice-mail: 419-358-3270 Professor of Chemistry & Physics FAX: 419-358-3323 Chairman, Science Department E-Mail edmiston@bluffton.edu Bluffton College 280 West College Avenue Bluffton, OH 45817 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:23:24 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "David C. Finster" Subject: Re: CHEMCOM Digest - 1 Sep 1999 to 2 Sep 1999 (#1999-144) In-Reply-To: <199909060009.TAA24352@saluki-mailsmtp.siu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1207948237==_.ALT" --=====================_1207948237==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks to Jeff Rubin, Mary Ann Solstad, and Linda Swihart for writing three good responses to the methonal/JAK-bashing post. Saved me the time! Dave ******************************* David C. Finster Professor and Chair Department of Chemistry University Chemical Hygiene Officer Wittenberg University --=====================_1207948237==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Thanks to Jeff Rubin, Mary Ann Solstad, and Linda Swihart for writing three good responses to the methonal/JAK-bashing post.  Saved me the time!

Dave
*******************************
David C. Finster
Professor and Chair
Department of Chemistry
University Chemical Hygiene Officer
Wittenberg University

 --=====================_1207948237==_.ALT-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:19:56 -0500 Reply-To: swihart@purdue.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: L A Swihart Organization: Purdue University Subject: attachments not good MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Edmiston wrote: >> Jeff Rubin says: >> >> Dear Fellow NACHO-ites, >> >> PLEASE do not send attachments directly to the list. > Is there a good reason for this request? Of course I don't want all > kinds of junk attachments, but the recent attachments were requested by > some, they came across (to me) just fine, I was glad to receive them. > Is there some problem I'm missing here? Yup, and it's a good time to run it past everybody again. 1) Attachments are handled VERY badly by some people's email programs, to the point of crashing the individual's email program and causing loss of saved messages. This is unfortunate, doesn't actually have to be this way, but preventing it would require that every receiver have a perfect email program and every sender know what he's/she's doing (as re encoding of attached messages). Many people do not have these options. 2) less important reason -- Attachments are not handled at all well by the listserv software. A small attachment (e.g. a signature file) can introduce 4 pages of gobbledy-gook into the list mail archives and/or digest. (I cut these out "by hand" before publishing each monthly digest to the archives pages, and it's a small pain, but a pain.) Fixing this problem would require getting new listserv software and having someone install, configure, and maintain it. This is not an option. This list is available through the cooperation of SIUC and we work with what they've provided. Attachments should be sent to the individual requesting them, or to me if the sender wishes to make them available to the general community via download from a web server. THANKS, Linda ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:49:57 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Janeen LaPierre Subject: Re: CHEMCOM Digest - 1 Sep 1999 to 2 Sep 1999 (#1999-144) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is one of the most outrageous postings I have read in a long while!!! I will not address the personal attacks to Jim as he is a well educated adult who can well defend himself, but the general message underlying this posting is simply crazy!! I am a parent of two young children, and have instructed more lab sections in the last 8 years than I care to tally. Children in elementary and high school, as well as young adults and nontraditional students at the college level, do not have the years of lab expertise and hands on knowledge of chemicals and their possible out of control reactions. That's why they are students and we are educators. Therefore it follows that we must train them to respect chemicals and their hazards as well as teach them how to work with them safely and in a responsible manner. As a parent, you bet I expect the teachers instructing my child to keep him safe. Something as simple as using some shields and making student wear goggles could have save a lot of kids and parents from many anxious moments, not to mention stitches! I fail to see how teaching our children to utilize proper PPE turns them into "victims". Yes, mishaps do happen in the lab. The key is to make sure appropriate safe guards are in place and the risk is out weighed by the educational benefit. How is this different from using car seats to safely restrain and protect a toddler or insisting that all your passengers in your car are buckled up? My son would never dream of riding in a car without his seat belt fastened. Why shouldn't he have the same response to putting on goggles when he goes into a chem lab? It is our responsibility to teach all aspects of lab activities. We should be demonstrating properties of chemicals and chemical reactions as well as the safe way of working with these materials. I'm sure I am not alone when I say, I expect my children to be kept safe at school. Not only do I expect it, but I demand it! I feel this case points out an all too lackadaisical approach to science education in our schools. I've-done- it-this-way-for-30-years-and-no-one-was-hurt kind of attitude. It sickens me! It is our moral and ethical obligations to protect students who trust in us to educate them. I will step down of my high horse now and say that I practice what I preach. :):):):):):):):):):):):) Janeen Lapierre, CHO College of Osteopathic Medicine University of New England 11 Hills Beach Road Biddeford, ME 04005 E-Mail: JLaPierre@MAILBOX.UNE.EDU Phone: (207) 283-0170 ext 2446 Opinions are mine and not those of UNE. >>> - 9/5/99 5:45 AM >>> Hi CHEMCOM, CHEMEDs, NACHOs, and SAFETYs, I would appreciate hearing what other readers think about having lab accident reports referred to their list and their reaction to Bob's comments. ... Jim Above is my reaction to Bob's comments. I think it is important to post these accidents so we can learn from them ourselves and so we can incorporate others mistakes in our own training sessions. It is invaluable to my mission as a safety educator to utilize real life stories to illustrate my points. Give a lecture and maybe a few catch phrases will stick. Tell a story and it gets retold and retold making the message real to the teller. You have to make training personal to get people to remember it. Janeen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:09:08 -0500 Reply-To: swihart@purdue.edu Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: L A Swihart Organization: Purdue University Subject: done it this way for 30 years.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Janeen LaPierre wrote: > > This is one of the most outrageous postings I have > read in a long while!!! --cut-- > I'm sure I am not alone when I say, I expect my children > to be kept safe at school. Not only do I expect it, but > I demand it! I feel this case points out an all too > lackadaisical approach to science education in our schools. > I've-done-it-this-way-for-30-years-and-no-one-was-hurt kind > of attitude. It sickens me! It is our moral and ethical > obligations to protect students who trust in us to educate them. I'm with Janeen! The "done it this way for 30 years..." comment reminds me of a terribly tragic and extremely moving/educational story that Jim tells in some of his seminars. About the HS teacher who for 30 years organized an experience for his/her senior science class several times a year. An educational experience which was widely regarded as a wonderful treat. Near the end of his/her 30 year teaching career, an accident happened. It was an accident that could have happened any one of those previous 29 years, but didn't. It was an accident that could have been prevented by the use of a simple precaution. It claimed the LIFE of a student. $.02, Linda ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:21:33 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Patricia DePra Subject: one more bit re: responsibility, accidents, and injuries I worked for DuPont for 5 years. Their philosophy was (and, I presume, still is) that ALL injuries are preventable. ALL. NO exceptions. Of course, not all accidents are preventable. Accidents happen. But, with the proper PPE, planning, and training, no one gets hurt. I'm sure that you all can think of potential exceptions to the above, and that line of thought led to some pretty animated discussions in a safety meeting or two. In terms of the academic labs, though, it works for me. The toughest part of it, in my opinion, is the training aspect -- making sure that students follow instructions and value safety, *and* making sure that IUm aware of all potential hazards beforehand. Obviously, the instructor wasnUt, or else the injuries wouldnUt have occurred. One of the great benefits of this list is that now any one of us who might have done a demo without a shield knows for certain the risk involved in doing so. A PR question: how do we answer the folks who point at this and say, now *thatUs* why I hate chemistry -- ? Patricia DePra Westfield State College Westfield, MA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:03:18 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Burns Subject: Re: Safety inspection checklists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Julie, I tried to send it to you but I get a message undeliverable. Send my your real address and I'll send you the material. -----Original Message----- From: Julie O'Brien [mailto:afn35210@AFN.ORG] Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 8:54 To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Subject: Safety inspection checklists Do any of you use checklists to perform safety inspections? I am collecting different types of checklists which are available. If you have one which you think works well, could you send or fax a copy to me? If you do not use checklists, what type of documentation do you use? Our safety team performs monthly inspections. We are trying to develop a non-regulatory system for our safety team inspections. (We already have another group who performs routine regulatory inspections.) We would like the format to be simple enough that very little additional training would be required. Thanks for your suggestions! Julie O'Brien Archimica (Florida) PO Box 1466 Gainesville, FL 32602 352-376-8246 (work) 352-373-7503 (fax) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:21:26 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Gillian Gardner Subject: Re: one more bit re: responsibility, accidents, and injuries In-Reply-To: <99090712213367@foma.wsc.mass.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I guess the best way to counter that is to point out all the good things that have come as a result of chemistry and to discuss that, most likely, the chemicals weren't at fault, the container was. Gillian Gardner On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Patricia DePra wrote: > > A PR question: how do we answer the folks who point at this and > say, now *thatUs* why I hate chemistry -- ? > > Patricia DePra > Westfield State College > Westfield, MA > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:03:50 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Rebecca Levins, RSR Corporation" Subject: Re: one more bit re: responsibility, accidents, and injuries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEF93B.7237D180" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEF93B.7237D180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A PR question: how do we answer the folks who point at this and say, now *that's* why I hate chemistry -- ? This incident is the first time I have heard that reason for hating = chemistry. (and I have heard a lot of reasons) I think the individual = who stated it was taking the class for the second time, and during the = first year he took it there were no accidents.=20 The basic premise is 'because it's dangerous': could it be this is just = an excuse instead of a real reason. If that were really true, there are = a number of activities that would not be as popular. Sports is one of = them- there are more injuries from high school football/basketball than = from high school chemistry. The risk factor with speeding is greater = also (or even just plain driving). Remember, high risk activities seem = to appeal to youth.=20 But excuse or not it may have to be dealt with. Possible PR: We don't think about the risk involved in day to day chemicals we handle = that are of similar risk as what was involved with the experiment; = gasoline, bleach and other household cleaners, pesticides, natural gas, = paints, nail polish remover, etc. Chemistry teaches respect of these as = well as 'lab chemicals'. It teaches what can be mixed and why and what = precautions to use. I am a lot more careful of my home "chemicals" now than I used to be. I = am also more aware and careful than many of my 'non-chemist' friends who = think if it is sold over-the-counter it is safe. Best regards, Rebecca Levins Environmental, Health & Safety Compliance Specialist RSR Corporation Dallas, Texas RSRrdl@onramp.net (214) 583-0245 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:49:55 -0400 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Robert Burns Subject: Re: one more bit re: responsibility, accidents, and injuries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" One bit we use to tell our chemical operators who work in the plant, with much higher amounts of material than lab quantities: "The most dangerous part of your day is driving to work in the morning." I saw the statistic years ago; it compared person-hours at each activity. Chemical plants are actually kind of safe. The OSHA site that lists the most hazardous has Lowes at the top. (Lowes is a home products store- pipe, wood, etc as well as tools and other items. Actually nice stores. Apparently they have high accident rates.) The best answer is to simply point out the products of chemical manufacture- all the way from pens to cars to drugs. Life is chemistry. There are hazards to everything- we need to know how to protect ourselves and others. Which is what this group is all about! "Semper Adventurus!" Robert L. Burns Group Leader, R&D Ruetgers Organics Corporation Email rburns@ruetgers-organics-corp.com Phone 814 231 9214 > -----Original Message----- > From: rsrrdl@onramp.net [mailto:rsrrdl@onramp.net] > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 15:04 > To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU > Subject: RE: one more bit re: responsibility, accidents, and > injuries > > A PR question: how do we answer the folks who point at this and > say, now *that's* why I hate chemistry -- ? > > This incident is the first time I have heard that reason for hating > chemistry. (and I have heard a lot of reasons) I think the individual who > stated it was taking the class for the second time, and during the first > year he took it there were no accidents. > > The basic premise is 'because it's dangerous': could it be this is just an > excuse instead of a real reason. If that were really true, there are a > number of activities that would not be as popular. Sports is one of them- > there are more injuries from high school football/basketball than from > high school chemistry. The risk factor with speeding is greater also (or > even just plain driving). Remember, high risk activities seem to appeal to > youth. > > But excuse or not it may have to be dealt with. > > Possible PR: > We don't think about the risk involved in day to day chemicals we handle > that are of similar risk as what was involved with the experiment; > gasoline, bleach and other household cleaners, pesticides, natural gas, > paints, nail polish remover, etc. Chemistry teaches respect of these as > well as 'lab chemicals'. It teaches what can be mixed and why and what > precautions to use. > > I am a lot more careful of my home "chemicals" now than I used to be. I am > also more aware and careful than many of my 'non-chemist' friends who > think if it is sold over-the-counter it is safe. > > Best regards, > > Rebecca Levins > Environmental, Health & Safety Compliance Specialist > RSR Corporation > Dallas, Texas > RSRrdl@onramp.net > (214) 583-0245 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:31:31 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: one more bit re: responsibility, accidents, and injuries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/7/99 12:23:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pdepra@FOMA.WSC.MASS.EDU writes: << A PR question: how do we answer the folks who point at this and say, now *thatUs* why I hate chemistry -- >> Hi NACHOs, Ask them if they hate driving each time they read about the 45,000 deaths each year. Ask them if they hate swimming each time they hear about the 3,000 drownings. Etc.... Jim ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:35:05 EDT Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Labsafe@AOL.COM Subject: Re: one more bit re: responsibility, accidents, and injuries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/7/99 1:22:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gardner@LCLARK.EDU writes: << I guess the best way to counter that is to point out all the good things that have come as a result of chemistry and to discuss that, most likely, the chemicals weren't at fault, the container was. >> Hi NACHOs, The container? Sorry but this sounds a little like pointing the finger at the car in the car accident. How about the driver? The chemicals were not at fault.... (and, not to be unkind) but the teacher likely did some very unreasonable things. ... Jim ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:58:41 -0600 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: "Greene, Ben" Subject: Re: one more bit re: responsibility, accidents, and injuries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I have seen some really stupid things done in the lab and in the class before, and have learned and seen others learn from the experience, but most all the people I knew who "hated" chemistry just couldn't do math. Ben > ---------- > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:27:26 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Brian Olson Subject: Your chance to participate in "Safety Trends" talk. Comments: To: SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU, radsafe@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Later this month I will be facilitating a talk for our local (Madison, WI) Safety Council. The name of the talk is "Trends in Safety for the New Millennium". We will discuss the many enhancements/improvements which have come to the safety field in the last part of this century, but will be focusing most of the allotted time on what the future holds for the field in the areas of compliance, communication, and training. To show how 'networking' has become an important tool lately, I want to share the thoughts of those on the SAFETY, LABSAFE, & RADSAFE mail-lists (regarding the scope of this talk). So...what do you feel the greatest trends in Safety will be for the next ten years? I will omit your name if you wish. Send me an email! As always, thanks for your input. Brian Olson Manager, EH&S Promega Corp (biotech co.) Madison, WI 53711 bolson@promega.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:59:02 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Nick Spare Subject: Re: one more bit re: responsibility, accidents, and injuries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's certainly true for those who hate P.Chem!!! Nick Spare -----Original Message----- From: Greene, Ben To: LABSAFETY-L@SIU.EDU Date: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 2:15 PM Subject: Re: one more bit re: responsibility, accidents, and injuries most all the people I knew who "hated" chemistry just couldn't do math. > >Ben >> ---------- >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:50:16 -0500 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Erik Talley Subject: New ACS Chemical Health and Safety WebSite Comments: To: "safety@uvmvm.uvm.edu" , "dchas-l@siu.edu" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain First, sorry for any multiple e-mails you might get with this message as I'm sending it to several lists of interest... The Division of Chemical Health and Safety of the American Chemical Society has updated it's website. Please take a few minutes to review the new information available and feel free to make any comments/suggestions using the contact button at the bottom of each page. There are several new additions to this website including an archives section with all past meeting abstracts in a searchable database. Since we've decided to go by the acronym 'CHAS' for our division, we will be changing the URL for our division from http://dchas.cehs.siu.edu to http://chas.cehs.siu.edu/. Both URL's are completely functional and will be functional for the foreseeable future, but we are asking that you begin switching links you may have to the 'chas' url. Lastly, the Division is now accepting abstracts for the Spring national meeting in San Francisco. If you go to our website and then click on "meetings," you'll see information about on-line abstract submittal information. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Thanks, Erik _______________________________________ Erik Talley, Assistant Director Center for Environmental Health and Safety Southern Illinois University 1325 Radio Drive Carbondale, IL 62901-6898 erik@cehs.siu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:36:24 -0700 Reply-To: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List Sender: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List From: Neal Langerman Subject: CALL FOR PAPERS Comments: To: occ-env-med-l@list.mc.duke.edu, SAFETY@LIST.UVM.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" I am organizing a symposium on Chemical Spills for the Spring American Chemical Society meeting in San Francisco.  The symposium will (most likely) be on Monday or Tuesday, March 26 - 30, 2000.  The symposium will feature two speakers from large universities who will address the need to have or not have a formal, on-site chemica